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Oldgreybeard

17th September 2018, 12:39 PM

I have a caravan advertised for sale on Gumtree. This morning I received an email with a number of questions which appeared quite reasonable
[I]"I'm interested in the "1970s Viscount Pop-top Caravan" ad you've listed on Gumtree.

I have a few questions:

1. Are there any major issues with it?No – it has been regularly maintained
2. Has it been checked by a professional in the past 6-12 months?New brakes fitted in 2015
Fridge serviced and 12v / vibration switch fitted 2016
Water tank, hand pump and breather tube fitted 2017
3. Reply via [email protected] only for fast response"

(My response in red.)

An hour later I received a second email from a different name (now Stephen not Murphy) and a slightly different email address. This email contained the following:

"[I]Due to the nature of my job and location i will not be able to come for inspection am a very busy type as i work with Irving Oil as the engineer and i am presently offshore in Atlantic Offshore. Can you send pictures to me now, I'll be paying you through PayPal, do you have a PayPal account?If you don't have an account with PayPal, its pretty easy, safe and secured to set up one. Just log on to (Paypal hyperlink)[I] and you will set up an account in less than 5 minutes.

Alternatively i can as well transfer the funds into your bank account via my PayPal. If that is fine with you, please do get back to me with your name on the account, Bsb and your account number so that i can transfer the funds asap"

I became suspicious for two reasons. Firstly his employment (Irving Oil and Atlantic Offshore) is located in Nebraska. Secondly, the MO is the same as a scam that was doing the rounds a couple of years ago. Also the hyperlink takes you to a fake "PayPal" site.

That scam went like this - after agreeing on the price and method of payment and date for pickup, there is an email apologising for the inconvenience, but something has come up and they have to arrange for a 'courier' to pick up the vehicle. The only problem is that the 'courier' has to be paid in cash BEFORE picking up the vehicle. Can you kindly pay the courier and I will increase the amount we agreed on plus a little extra for your inconvenience.

You can guess the rest, as soon as the money was paid over and the vehicle removed an urgent message was received from PayPal or whoever advising that the purchaser had cancelled the payment.

You may or may not get any support from PayPal, Gumtree or whoever else may have been involved as you might well have broken the Gumtree rules by exchanging emails outside of the Gumtree site . Even if you had some joy in getting back some of the money, your chances of getting the 'courier' fee is virtually ziltch.

I thought I should do the right thing and report this to the local police station - thier enthusiasm was deafening in its absence, but I had an enjoyable walk from home to the police station and back.

For the record my response to this second email, after no joy with the police, was as follows;

Murphy, Stephen, whatever,
2 names, 3 email addresses and now you want my bank details!!Sounding like a scam to me

Funny I haven't had any further emails. But you have been warned that these creeps are out and about again.

Bob

NCArcher

17th September 2018, 12:48 PM

Gumtree scams are easy to foil. Cash when you pickup only. If you can't get there because "you are working away". You miss out.

ian

17th September 2018, 01:00 PM

??
don't you need the purchaser's drivers licence details so that you can transfer the registration ??

Oldgreybeard

17th September 2018, 01:13 PM

??
don't you need the purchaser's drivers licence details so that you can transfer the registration ??

Thanks Ian, I thought that I only had to complete the 'sellers' part and hand it to the buyer who would complete the form and apply for the registration to be transferred.

I had better check with Vic Roads.

Bob

ian

17th September 2018, 01:35 PM

But if the "buyer" is using a "courier" I think you (the seller) remain liable for all fines, etc until the "buyer" transfers the registration.
So, it's in your interests to be able to positively identify the "buyer".

Oldgreybeard

17th September 2018, 04:01 PM

Just checked Vic Roads website.

If a vehicle has been sold, given as a gift or otherwise disposed of, and will be garaged in Victoria, the buyer must tell VicRoads of its transfer within 14 days of taking possession of the vehicle.

Part 1 - Seller must provide roadworthy certificate, if required

Part 2 - Seller must

Fill in the ‘seller’ section of the application for transfer of registration form [PDF 368 Kb] (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/-/media/files/formsandpublications/registration/application_for_transfer_of_registration.ashx?la=en&hash=AB90D50C832B0CAD245BDB50F708DFAC)
.

Note: You are required to inform the buyer in writing whether the vehicle is entered on any Written-off Vehicle Register (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/written-off-vehicles), either in Victoria or interstate. This can be done by ticking ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ in the appropriate section of the transfer form.

Give the buyer a receipt as proof of purchase and ownership of the vehicle. The receipt should be dated and include:

your name, address and signature
the buyers name and address, and
vehicle’s details such as Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/new-registration/vehicle-identification-number-vin), engine number, make and model.

The buyer is responsible for submitting the application for transfer of registration form and Certificate of Roadworthiness to VicRoads.

This is pretty much as I remembered it to be. Bold emphasis is by me for clarification. It would appear that a caravan / trailer is exempt, but I will check at thier office later in the week.

Bob

damian

17th September 2018, 04:39 PM

You have the option to let them know about the sale and supply details of the buyer, or you do in Qld and NSW.

At the very least I'd want to site the drivers licence of the buyer and note the details because as stated above if you can't prove who bought it from you and they get an infringement guess who the state will come after for $$$.

Unfortunately gumtree etc bring us into contact with a general cross section of the population, not just the sort of people you'd normally deal with, and lots of them are insane.

Oldgreybeard

17th September 2018, 04:57 PM

You have the option to let them know about the sale and supply details of the buyer, or you do in Qld and NSW.

I did not see an option to do so on the Vic Roads website.

The position regarding infringement and subsequent fines is probably not so significant in respect to a caravan or trailer, but in the case of a car or truck, there could be significant infringement costs incurred in the 14 days between selling the vehicle and the buyer actually lodging the transfer papers. I wonder if 'someone' actually checks all infringement notices to ensure they weren't incurred after the vehicle was sold and before the transfer of ownership is processed.
Might raise that question when I am at the Vic Roads office in a couple of days - not counting on getting a definitive answer though.

Bob

david.elliott

17th September 2018, 04:59 PM

[QUOTE=Oldgreybeard;2106957]I have a caravan advertised for sale on Gumtree. This morning I received an email with a number of questions which appeared quite reasonable
[I]"I'm interested in the "1970s Viscount Pop-top Caravan" ad you've listed on Gumtree.

I have a few questions:

1. Are there any major issues with it?No – it has been regularly maintained
2. Has it been checked by a professional in the past 6-12 months?New brakes fitted in 2015
Fridge serviced and 12v / vibration switch fitted 2016
Water tank, hand pump and breather tube fitted 2017
3. Reply via [email protected] only for fast response"

This scam surfaces in many iterations.
The key point is they pay you too much, usually from stolen credit card details, oops, sorry made a mistake, and ask you to pay back the diff in cash or credit back.
I have seen it in Rentals, Student accommodation, car sales, motor bikes, and anything which has a bit of value in it, and a bloke I knew got done for a laser printer, but the idiot sent it off to Africa, dumbass. (greed will getya every time) In printing I used to get a few from Africa from Pastor (insert name here) looking for 1 trillion leaflets (exaggeration mine) printed blah, blah, and delivered via his transport company. I needed to pay the courier and had to add the cost to my bill.

AlexS

17th September 2018, 06:35 PM

I've had a couple like that for my woodwork. They come in via my website. Easy to pick, as they want to buy multiple units and don't usually specify what it is they want - just "your work". I don't even bother replying.

ian

18th September 2018, 12:30 AM

The position regarding infringement and subsequent fines is probably not so significant in respect to a caravan or trailer, but in the case of a car or truck, there could be significant infringement costs incurred in the 14 days between selling the vehicle and the buyer actually lodging the transfer papers. don't know about Victoria, but in NSW "red light running" and intersection speed cameras snap the rear number plate -- i.e. that on the trailer or caravan.

When the red light running cameras were first introduced in Sydney, U-Haul (which at the time had a fleet of trailer for hire from every third garage) discovered that a significant number of "hires" were not documented in their system.

I wonder if 'someone' actually checks all infringement notices to ensure they weren't incurred after the vehicle was sold and before the transfer of ownership is processed.AFAIK, the notice is sent to you and you have to prove that you have disposed of the vehicle to a real person.

woodPixel

18th September 2018, 01:59 AM

Mobyturns

18th September 2018, 06:58 AM

Typical scam. I've had a couple of seemingly genuine initial phone messages then the email follow up now when advertising vehicles. Almost the same message word for word, only the persons name and employer details change. They usually only want to communicate via email, no phone access available where they are stationed, I guess they haven't heard of Skype etc.

Once I receive their template scam email I respond with some rather crude Aussie language. I've also been known to waste phone scammers time and love getting to the point when the scammer realizes that I'm "pi$$ing them around" and then listening to an Indian accent trying very hard to swear at me in "Aussie."

Cliff Rogers

18th September 2018, 09:10 AM

AlexS, I DO like your work! :D

Careful, his hat won't fit now. :doh:

damian

19th September 2018, 01:57 PM

I did not see an option to do so on the Vic Roads website.

Bob

I don't know. In the past I've just taken the paperwork into the office and sorted it out over the counter.

And I've never lived in victoria...