Am I the only person that thinks that this is wrong?

[Grumpy John]

I am in a Facebook camper trailer group and one of the members has posted photos of mods he has done to his camper. The camper in question has a payload of 500Kg's, he says that the boat, motor, trailer weigh 290Kg. Given that the water tank holds 150 litres, he could technically be legal with this setup and a full tank of water. He wouldn't be able to add much more like a full Engel and a couple of slabs. My thoughts are that even if he is under weight, he would be so top heavy as to be dangerous.
What do others think.

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[chambezio]

I agree John, to me its way too high to be safe. Also too, the boat and trailer is a "floppy" load as well. The trailer has leaf springs so it will be "jiggling about independent of the camper under it.
In an off road situation....I think you may find the camper on its side.

The rule of thumb with regards to loading 4 X 4s is ti keep any load down low and only put light things on a roof rack! I shudder to see what people put on their roof racks. Full gerry cans, gas bottles, tyres and rims and so the list goes on.

Regarding the boat I think I would be looking at one of those set-ups that have "clip-on" wheels that come off when you get on the water. Leave the trailer at home and tie the boat upside down on a rack on the camper

[BobL]

OTOH weight might not be as much of a problem as we think because the boat is not directly behind a vehicle so would act like a huge foil and provide lift.
This could add its own problems especially at speed not to mention the extra fuel needed.

[old1955]

I can see him getting pulled up frequently.

Ross

[Gabriel]

I know nothing about such things, but I woukdnt wanna be caught in a cross wind or drive it over the westgate

[ian]

Hi John

by "payload of 500 kg" do you mean that the camping trailer by itself weighs 250 Kg? Which would mean that when fully loaded the camping trailer is under 750 kg and hence doesn't require brakes?

If so, his 250 kg trailer (bare), plus 290 kg boat & trailer, will weigh 540 kg.
Add in 150 litres of water and he's pushing 700 kg before he puts any gear -- cooker, fridge, food, etc in the trailer.

But weight aside, I'm pretty sure that something like that is not legal, because the camper is designed as a camping trailer not as a load carrying trailer.
Your "mate" has effectively modified a camping trailer into a vehicle carrying trailer.

The regs for trailers are on line https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#anc_11 if you want to read up on it.

[rustynail]

The visual is probably worse than the actual. A couple of things are of concern; the outboard over hanging the rear of the trailer may cause fishtailing. The suspension of the boat trailer creates a springy load and hard to tie down to avoid side shift. Blocked suspension would overcome the problem.
The existing set up is no higher than a caravan. So, provided the camper has suitable suspension and an as wide as possible axle, stability shouldnt be a major issue.
Let's face it, a caravan is a lot less streamline than this wacky set up.

[rrich]

I am not an aeronautical engineer. However, if the boat acts as an airfoil, wouldn't the action try to lift the carrying trailer and make it more unstable over rough roads?

DUNNO

Just thinking too hard after some flavored ice cubes.

[Grumpy John]

Hi John

by "payload of 500 kg" do you mean that the camping trailer by itself weighs 250 Kg? Which would mean that when fully loaded the camping trailer is under 750 kg and hence doesn't require brakes?

If so, his 250 kg trailer (bare), plus 290 kg boat & trailer, will weigh 540 kg.
Add in 150 litres of water and he's pushing 700 kg before he puts any gear -- cooker, fridge, food, etc in the trailer.

But weight aside, I'm pretty sure that something like that is not legal, because the camper is designed as a camping trailer not as a load carrying trailer.
Your "mate" has effectively modified a camping trailer into a vehicle carrying trailer.

The regs for trailers are on line https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#anc_11 if you want to read up on it.


Tare weight of camper is 1400Kg.
GVM of camper 1900Kg.
Payload of camper is 500Kg.
If the the boat, trailer, and motor weigh 290Kg (which I doubt) that leaves him another 210Kg of load carrying. 150 Litres (150Kg) water and he's got very little left for a fridge and supplies.
The camper also has provision for 2 x 9Kg gas bottles and 2 x 20Ltr jerry cans.

Edit: He's not a mate of mine :D.

[Burnsy]

Majority of the boat trailer weight is on it's wheels, only about 10% on the jockey wheel so at least 250kg on the boat trailer wheels which are behind the camper axle. That is going to make a big difference to the campers ball weight making it dangerous to tow. I am surprised the camper is still sitting on it's jockey wheel and not standing up on it's . Guessing the camper ball weight would be less than 50kg - illegal and dangerous.

[Grumpy John]

Majority of the boat trailer weight is on it's wheels, only about 10% on the jockey wheel so at least 250kg on the boat trailer wheels which are behind the camper axle. That is going to make a big difference to the campers ball weight making it dangerous to tow. I am surprised the camper is still sitting on it's jockey wheel and not standing up on it's . Guessing the camper ball weight would be less than 50kg - illegal and dangerous.


If you look closely you'll see that he has the stabiliser legs down.

[graham.murfett]

Regarding weight behind camper axle...
What if he put the boat on backwards?
Irrespective of other considerations.

[Cal]

And take the motor off and put it in or on the car!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ian]

Edit: He's not a mate of mine :D.I knew that, but I wasn't sure that I could correctly spell "protagonist" :wink:

[Pearo]

Probably on par with my trailer sailer which tows ok. I weigh in at something like 1.8t, but the weight is nothing compared to the windage.

[ian]

Regarding weight behind camper axle...
What if he put the boat on backwards?
Irrespective of other considerations.but ...

according to https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#anc_11
The Gross Trailer Mass, (in this case 1900 kg) must be distributed "approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area" -- it the boat and trailer is a concentrated load resting where the boat trailer's wheels are sitting.

BTW, I think by making the modifications he has, GrumpyJ's "protagonist" has become the manufacturer and needs to get a new compliance plate for the trailer.

[bryn23]

While i don't think this is the greatest idea, i do have concern with the bow creating a lift during high speeds, abit it wouldn't be huge, but it may cause a little issue with reducing the tower weight and make the trailer a little unstable.

As for the law, as long as the trailer is under its weight limit, the tow ball weight is under the vehicle manufactures specs and it is a secured load.

Then he is fine, a trailer is a trailer, regardless if it set up as a camper trailer, I've seen these with Quad bikes on top.

Is it safe, i don't believe it is,

yes the majority of the weight is low, but if a strap snaps or high winds, i just see an accident waiting to happen

[Pearo]

but if a strap snaps or high winds, i just see an accident waiting to happen

That could be said about any thing loaded onto a trailer though.

[woodPixel]

How many cops will there be between his home and destination?

Because I'd wager that's how many times he is going to be pulled up.

Those 30 minute stops are going to add a lot of time to the trip....

[rustynail]

How many cops will there be between his home and destination?

Because I'd wager that's how many times he is going to be pulled up.

Those 30 minute stops are going to add a lot of time to the trip....
For what? If not over weight and all secure he's legal. Ugly but legal.

[ian]

For what? If not over weight and all secure he's legal. Ugly but legal.most probably non compliance with the trailer compliance plate.

The camper is a single level trailer with a camper body -- there may even be a specific spec for such a configuration.

what we have in the example is a double deck trailer -- think double deck car carrier.
it would be legal if the load were approximately evenly distributed and the compliance plate described the trailer as "double deck".

but the boat load is very much concentrated at the rear of the trailer, and who knows what compromises have been made when creating the tie down points.

[woodPixel]

Legal? Do the cops care about legal wrt some minor code violation/whatever? Or what looks safe?

They will pull this dude up every single time.

He will argue and pout about Section Blah of Whatever Code, but the cop will eyeball it and assess if its safe for other road users and/or the occupants (i.e. said bogans kids who will be killed in the inevitable rollover). He'll issue the fine and let the courts sort it out.... or force you to wait for 45 minutes until the inspector comes.

Even if he has a Magic Pass signed by Her Majesty, he's still going to get pulled over every single time.

Seriously, if you were a plod in the patrol car and saw this go past, your first thought would be this bloke is a bit of a tool/mental/idiot.... wouldn't it?

Imagine being behind it on the highway!

edit: I saw this video a while back and this guys setup reminded me of how easily a disaster strikes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ix7ZgsWTMg

[Kuffy]

The cops won't pull you over without knowing what you have done wrong. what are they gonna do? pull you over and ask you to wait here while they send a photo back to headquarters to have them figure out what wrong was committed. That's a good way to get sacked for incompetence.

[Grumpy John]

I would dread being behind him on any road, at any speed, I would also be too scared to pass. I'd probably pull over and wait a while and hope I didn't see him again.

[bryn23]

woodpixel,

you nailed it, it may be legal, but any cop is going to think and pull him over.

I've been behind many clowns with trailers that are poorly packed or just dangerous, if i can pass, i do, if not i pull off the road and make an excuse to get a coffee.

People should get a class in commonsense before they are allowed to use a trailer, same goes for load distribution and correct tie down procedures.

The amount of people that use sun damaged cheap 50kg rated ratchet straps is also unbelievable, these things snap, by just looking at them

Buy proper WIL rated straps and keep them dry and out of the sun.

[Grumpy John]

The cops won't pull you over without knowing what you have done wrong. what are they gonna do? pull you over and ask you to wait here while they send a photo back to headquarters to have them figure out what wrong was committed. That's a good way to get sacked for incompetence.

If the cops suspect that your load is insecure they have every right to pull you over. They can also check the compliance plate and if they suspect you are overweight they will make you wait until you are weighed.
This guy is going to get sick of being pulled over.

[woodPixel]

The cops won't pull you over without knowing what you have done wrong. what are they gonna do? pull you over and ask you to wait here while they send a photo back to headquarters to have them figure out what wrong was committed. That's a good way to get sacked for incompetence.

Au contraire mon ami!

As a maker of many street machines over the years I can tell you they will pull you over instantly without exception. Every. Single. Time.

I've made cars that are legal height wise and noise wise and they were pulled over continuously so they could test it. Open the bonet, have to explain the super charger (frown, furrow, hmmm), the blow off valves on the turbos, tints on the windows, show me the engineering certs please.... getting the compliance notice for Yet Another Test for noise.

Mate, the RTA at Artarmon knew me so well it was rubber stamped.

I've learned my lessons and now do "sleepers". Mr Plod isn't out to help you, he's out to arrest you.

Interestingly, the harassment stopped when I was about 40. Maybe us old farts aren't as reckless as the yoofs. Maybe the relentless active spying of their in-car-instant-camera-computers now show your status to them in real time?

While I am in no way an engineer, or a cop, or even especially aware of the R+R of trailers, etc, I do know that with cars that cops are basically ignorant of every regulation under the sun. They simply don't care about your excuses or acting like a lawyer when they pull you over, they will just issue you with a fine or slap on a defect notice. Yes, they used to call inspectors. I was pinged out at the Sydney airport near the golf course continuously.

If you get a defect notice you aren't going anywhere with it, not even home.

I dont think the cops give a hoot about "incompetence". They will pull you over, issue the fine/defect and let the system sort it out. The converse is - if this bloke rolls this horror and two kids are killed, imagine the media baying for blood over "why wasn't this disaster pulled over long ago". The average dude would look at it and wager rightly that its a disaster waiting to happen, regardless of legality.

My last thoughts are ones of practicality! Imagine how much work there is in getting that up/down, securing those ramps and getting it all strapped down. Gods, the work! Pulling up at night would need a lot of space and time.

[bueller]

Yeah that thing looks scary to me. If I saw him on the road I'd pull over and let him get as far away as possible. Doesn't take much for things to go wrong especially at speed on country roads.

[Handyjack]

And no body has mentioned that as the outboard motor overhangs the rear of the camper trailer, the load is now too long. (At least in Victoria.)
It can not be beyond the rear of the trailer, the rear over hang.
http://file:///C:/Users/micha/Downloads/HeavyVehicleRearOverhangLimitsForCarsAndTrucksInVictoria.pdf

[rustynail]

And no body has mentioned that as the outboard motor overhangs the rear of the camper trailer, the load is now too long. (At least in Victoria.)
It can not be beyond the rear of the trailer, the rear over hang.
http://file:///C:/Users/micha/Downloads/HeavyVehicleRearOverhangLimitsForCarsAndTrucksInVictoria.pdf
The outboard motor overhang has been mentioned.

[rustynail]

If he is not in breach of the compliance plate and the load is secure without undue overhang he would be legal. Many camper vans are now fitted with racking to enable top loading on the lowered roof. The configuration of that load is unspecified. Many sit the quad bike up there. Believe me, thats heavier than his boat and trailer. They sail past the coppers up here every weekend and no one turns a hair.