A townsville night before christmas!

[Dengue]

A TOWNSVILLE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS !



This is really how bad it is up here in Townsville. We padlock our front gate each night, and have a 5'6" ( 1.7m) front fence. Kirwan, Mt Louisa, Condon and Kelso are all nearby suburbs. Yarrawonga is a posh suburb where the doctors and lawyers and other wealthy people live. The Police cannot cope, despite bringing in additional Task Forces from elsewhere in the State specifically to target these crims out of control


An ode to recent events and in the spirit of the Festive Season...


T'was the night before Christmas, and all through the Ville.
Little creatures from Kirwan were ready to steal.

All wallets are hidden, and cars locked with care.
With hope in the morning, they would all still be there.
The children are sleeping, and parents alike.
Whilst in their backyard, someone's stealing their bike.


I switched on the aircon, and began counting sheep.
And settled right in, for a good nights sleep.
When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter.
I sprang from the bed, to see what was the matter.
Seems I forgot to lock my front door.
And someone drove away, in my Commodore.


The police were called, to file a report.
"We'll be there in 4 hours" came the retort.
Say "Goodbye" to your car, and your neighbours new ute.
Cause police aren't allowed to engage in pursuit.
The Constable says, "I'm real sorry mate.
But our balls are in a vice, from the laws in this State."



Coming straight out of Condon, and up to no good.
Gangs of delinquents, roam neighbourhoods.
They're bashing, they're stealing, they're cutting and burning.
They're robbing, they're breaking, each night they're returning.
Just when you believe they won't go too far,Â
They're jacking old people when they stop in their car.



You've set up the tree, and laid out the presents.
Too unaware of an intruders presence.
You've bought the kids new scooters, knowing full well though.
They will shortly belong, to someone in Kelso.
And the cricket bat for Timmy to swing in the park,
Will be used in a robbery once it gets dark.


They're creeping and sneaking, quiet as a mouse.
As all electronics are removed from your house.
They empty your cupboards, your pantry and drawers.
They'll find where you wallet is hidden for sure.
Your statement will show that your AMEX and Visa,
Were maxed out at BWS Mount Louisa.



Stolen cars are pulled from Ross River by divers.
While an ambulance treats the 12 year old drivers.
They're arrested and held by police til the morning.
When the Judge lets them off with their 17th warning.
The Magistrate happily let this farce go on longer.
Because it doesn't affect them in Yarrawonga.



Christmas morning you wake and open your eyes.
And find with the greatest degree of surprise.
That no burglar, no prowler, no mischievous brat.
Had managed to break through the door of your flat.
The tree and the presents you managed to defend.
You must be the luckiest guy in West End.



The dog was let out and your car may be taken,
But you somehow avoided a full blown break-in.
So key lock your doors and keep valuables out of sight.
Merry Christmas to all, they'll come back tonight.


By Chris L

[Handyjack]

I thought you were talking about Melbourne. It is not much different here.

Keep Safe.

[Spiritwolfe]

This is a great poem Chris but sorry for your situation mate
Wishing you the best in your unfortunate situation

[KBs PensNmore]

Unfortunately a sign of the times, it's happening everywhere.:(( Wonder what would happen if it was the magistrates places that happened to.
Kryn

[Arron]

Unfortunately a sign of the times, it's happening everywhere.:(( Wonder what would happen if it was the magistrates places that happened to.
Kryn

Really? I accept that in some places there are problems and I sympathise with that, but I read that in most places property crime is falling and has been for a long time. That's what I see around me too - so I don't believe it's selective statistics.

When we were kids (1960s) no-one even locked their door. Then the Vietnam war came to us with American GIs on RandR bringing heroin with them. In the 70s things went nuts - break ins everywhere. The heroin epidemic and the need to pay for it. The 80s were similar but tapering. Now break-ins and local thefts are pretty rare in this typical Sydney middle-distance suburb. We've been here since 1994 and only had one attempted break-in in that time (and one other incident - someone vandalised our letterbox in the early days).

I think not much else has happened in the street - I think our experience is fairly typical for the the street.

Are we just lucky ? Or is it like weather forecasting where everyone thinks things are worse then they are - never stand back to judge what's really going on?

Just asking cos I really don't know. What are other people's experiences?

Arron

Ps, not trying to trivialise your experiences Dengy, I have no doubt you are telling it as it is.

[Dengue]

Hi Arron, I think you ought to read this account below one of the guards at the Townsville Juvenile Detention Centre. These kids are just some of the ring leaders of our indigenous youth gangs, and it shows how they treat people in our community. Most of them are on remand, awaiting their day in court, when they will be released back into the community! How would you like to work there? How would you like to live here, in some of the above mentioned suburbs?

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/crime-court/it-started-with-an-argument/news-story/324eff22c3f51cfbf2dffba1518d3861

[MAPLEMAN]

I'm sure that 'indigenous' youth aren't the sole perpetrators of crime in Townsville!...MM

[Dengue]

No MM, but they make up 99.5% of the gangs that roam the streets at all hours here, from 5 yr olds to 15 yr olds and older. It really is a serious problem, an epidemic, and the community is worried. Police are seriously outnumbered, and cannot pursue them if in stolen cars. Some neighbourhoods even have vigilante groups on the lookout for these gangs.

The white guys causing trouble are usually the ice addicts looking for money, and in an older age bracket, usually working alone

[Spiritwolfe]

Sadly there are places in the United States and probably Canada like this. There are places that have no law enforcement because no police officer will go into certain territories. The world is changing.
We don't see anything like that where we live here in Canada but things certainly are changing up this way also.
In my opinion, which doesn't mean much at all, I think modern technology has superseded it's expectations with devastating consequences. There isn't enough real life interaction between humans any more. When we were kids we played outside all the time in every season. The games were endless; red light-green light, Red Rover, Nikki Nikki 9 doors, hide and seek, hockey, tobogganing, skating, snowman and snow fort building, skipping, baseball, double Dutch, cards ( got 'em, got 'em, need 'em) jumpsies, rollerskating, biking.... The list was endless. Inside we had just as many games and entertaining things to do. There was a barrel of monkeys, Spirograph, snakes n ladders, monopoly, card games, hot rods, barbies, painting, play do, plastercine, paper mache, darts, pin the tail on the donkey, checkers, slinky, etc., etc., etc.,
Games we made to encourage real interaction. When you played nice, you made friends and got invited back so there was incentive to play nice and be fair.
These days there is no incentive to play nice and be fair. Most sources of entertainment involve being plugged in online where there are all kinds of killing games and things that should never be seen and we wonder what went wrong. Kids don't need to really interact. There aren't any entertaining games where they score big for being kind to one another and now many parents are either divorced or single so don't have the same hands on time to spend with them. . Most parents work outside the home. Home life just isn't what it used to be so why wouldn't we expect these kids to be messed up? They haven't actually learned to socialize or learned real human empathy. It's truly sad.
I'm a total introvert but even I had a generous amount of social interaction as child. It's almost like that stage of innocence disappeared.
Note: And not to say that if today's kids just played how WE used to that things would all be good. I don't have any answers. It's troubling indeed.

[MAPLEMAN]

If the problem is as serious as you suggest,perhaps a community petition to the 'Police Minister' seeking help, might be a good start.
Voice your concerns to the 'Premier' too.
Vigilante groups will not solve the problem...only inflame it!
Drugs,particularly 'ICE' are certainly major drivers of crime(s) in our communities
They (drugs) do not discriminate ... skin color, age, demographic are irrelevant factors
A very complex issue indeed and causing collateral damage all around this great country...MM

[KBs PensNmore]

When I was a kid, and unlucky enough to get caught by the local copper, you'd get an ear full from him then he'd take you home and speak with your old man, and that was worse, you got a couple of lashes with the belt, not enough to do any damage but enough that it hurt. To top it off, there was no pocket money for the month, and you'd be given jobs to do as well.
Now days, the kids give the coppers an ear full, if you ended up in front of a magistrate, he'd give you a suspended sentence, on top of the 20 or so that you've already accumulated, told not to do it again and then go and do exactly what you wanted again. Next week, back again and the story goes on.
I see a lot of the problem being the judicial system failing, the judges hand out pathetic sentences for major crimes, 5 years for murdering someone, because of time already served. They're out in 2 years on parole for good behavior!!!! Not enough room in the prisons is a lot of the excuses. My son was in there, for DUI and driving without a license, he got caught several times, he said it was like a holiday camp in there. He chose to do the work program because he was bored, they worked hard did their quota and were then allowed to go back to the units, not cells!!
Where's the incentive to behave, free medical, free board, clothing, washing done, what more could you want? Besides freedom to come and go.
We're constantly being told there is no money for the Schools, Health, Police Dept, that's why they're handing out fines etc, to get the money for their wages, instead of from the coffers of the Govt.
In Murray Bridge, we have 2 officers on duty in the evening/night, we have a school opposite where I live and if there's vandalism at the school, 4 hours later, we have an officer turn up. When asked how come so long, we're told 2 officers to cover about 1000 square kilometres!!!! That's why there are so many gangs around, because they know that if they're unlucky enought to get caught, there's not a great deal that can be done with them.
Kryn

[Spiritwolfe]

When I was a kid , parents actually HAD power. If I did anything wrong I'd know about it. My dad would beat me black & blue. At almost 6 feet , over 200 pounds, THAT was scary enough for me. He once broke his hand belting me. Yes it was excessive and my parents could have been put away but they weren't and neither was I. Mind you I turned out pretty messed up but I'm certainly not out looking for trouble.


The government took the power away from the parents and " KIDS RULE" these days. And how's that working?
Obviously it's NOT!


Discipline is a very important part of development and it's somehow missing. Kids whine & complain at the least bit of discomfort so there are NO CONSEQUENCES and if being locked up in the slammer is comparable to a 'sleep over' then it's no wonder it's not working.


When homeless people are making the choice to do the crime and do the time in jail cause it's more kushy than the streets, then it's no wonder we are where we are. Jail time shouldn't be rewarding in the least. Why not put them to work and HARD WORK??
Our taxes are what keep these things running. WE are ALL paying for this ALTERNATIVE lifestyle of 'crime that pays off.'


I'd never understood why the government runs jails and prisons like they do. It's supposed to be a place that people want to avoid at all costs yet it's not. It's a vacation spot for many. Why not put these people to work with hard, tough labour? Get them cleaning up the streets, washing and painting the buildings they vandalize so other kids see them and realize that breaking the law has consequences that aren't favourable.

The amount of work that could be done is staggering. There could be many incentives to good behaviour besides being let our early. We could make this work BUT unfortunately there are too many people , in government , making a fortune from the way things are and it seems there always will be because 'money talks.'
The word 'integrity' doesn't seem to mean much to people these days. It's all about smoke & mirrors and finding the best ways to deceive.

[Mr Brush]

Spiritwolfe - what was that "consequences" word you used there? I thought it had been removed from the dictionary? You must be from the past..... :D

I have a theory that humans need, and have always needed, a big stick held over them to rein in their worst tendencies. It used to be religion - an invisible man in the sky who would punish you (even if only after death...) for any bad deeds. "He" could see any bad things you did, even bad thoughts in some cases. With the gradual demise of organised religion, and the overly cosseting and consequence-free society we live in, humans have reverted to their natural characteristics. Like you, I was brought up with discipline and a healthy fear of something bigger and stronger than myself, both traits which have been largely removed from parenting these days under the PC regime.

Unless we get off-planet some time soon, this particular highly-evolved monkey is probably going to destroy the planet and everything on it. These days I find myself constantly appalled at the atrocities and cruelty instigated by humans, but somehow I'm never surprised to see some new level of barbarism.

Luckily, I'm slowly learning to give other people the same level of consideration that they extend to me. Try it - you'll like it.

I think it was the author Richard Bach who said "Everyone should be free to do whatever they like". He then went on to explain that this really implies "Do whatever you like as long as you're not impacting on anyone else doing what THEY like". Do whatever you like as long as you're not hurting anyone else. When you think this through, "doing whatever you like" is actually pretty restrictive !

<RANT OFF> :D

[Mobyturns]

No MM, but they make up 99.5% of the gangs that roam the streets at all hours here, from 5 yr olds to 15 yr olds and older. It really is a serious problem, an epidemic, and the community is worried. Police are seriously outnumbered, and cannot pursue them if in stolen cars. Some neighbourhoods even have vigilante groups on the lookout for these gangs.

The white guys causing trouble are usually the ice addicts looking for money, and in an older age bracket, usually working alone

Dengue has highlighted a subject that s causing much concern for the older people in our community.

Personally over the years we have had a number of instances of concern directly involving our immediate family, from youths attempting break and enter to our homes; actually catching one inside our garage; youths roaming and testing doors every night in the retirement village my Mum lives in; Mum sold her house in Kelso to get away form such issues; finding abandoned stolen cars less that 100m from our house; being intimidated by up to twenty youths at a "youth diversion centre" that existed across the road for three years; watching them taunt Police while doing "lawnies" across the road from the Police station; regularly having, towels shoes or articles of clothing stolen off the line; garden hoses regularly cut up to make "bongs"; avoiding assaults while walking or riding my mountain bike; finding huge quantities of drying blood one morning because gang members left one of their own to die after a botched break and enter to a tavern went wrong: me being in ED with heart issues while an absolutely feral youth in the next bay was high on ice or something, assaulting and spitting on everyone in range tying up at least four Police Officers, 4 Ambos, Nurse, Doctors, Hospital Security staff, and a do-gooder making sure his rights were being respected - say what!!!! etc etc.

However it could be worse like the mid twenties young bloke that I know who (a few years back) along with a mate attempted to protect their wives from two youths unwelcome sexual advances while entering a restaurant in Cannon Park. The two youths actions actually fit the definition of serious sexual assault and the young bloke ended up in ICU fighting for his life when the low lifes gang members decided to "teach him a lesson."

The crime rate is certainly very real and is not us with over active imaginations = and we line in one of the better suburbs.

[Bob38S]

I could say heaps but perhaps it could be best summed up as choices and consequences.

Consequences can be defined as natural, eg choose to touch a hot plate burn your finger and it hurts, or imposed, speed and you get fined.

When imposed consequences do not match or are seen as inadequate then there is no incentive to change / modify or make alternative choices. It comes down to people, society doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result. It ain't gonna happen.

Until the community, political expectations are precisely communicated and enforced to and on those making poor choices it can only get worse.

We are constantly told that we live in a user pays system and that we are responsible for our actions and this I can accept so long as those who are under the age of responsibility are held to account by those who are supposedly responsible for them - their parents. Once parents are made responsible and are forced either financially or through deeds to be accountable then there will be a change and their offspring will have a positive model to follow. The so called "All (No) care and no responsibility " has to change.

[Twisted Tenon]

Simplistically it's cause and effect. That's easy for me to say living where I do. For those directly affected by gang violence it must be a the pits. The facts are that the crime rate is decreasing accross Australia and the authorities are at a loss to explain why. Gang violence, alcoholism and illicit use in isolated communities has other causes and as FF has noted there are often other issues at play here. Unemployment and lack of opportunity for indigenous communities, and entrenched racism are foremost in the causes for violence directed outwards to the wider community and of course internalised by rampant DV within their own community.


The end result is significant anger from both sides. This anger is totally understandable. The problem is not a police matter, it is a deep social issue which will never be addressed.

TT

[Big Shed]

This thread has now well and truly been pushed in the political arena, which does not conform to our ToU, therefore some posts have been deleted.

Keep it non-political or the thread WILL be closed.

[bsrlee]

From personal knowledge (retired Police officer) quite a bit of the 'fall' in crime statistics is due to the Police being too busy to put all the incidents on the computer. Back in the late 1990's a certain big, busy Metropolitan Sydney Police command was complaining they were understaffed to which the Ivory Tower said that they did not have enough reported incidents to need more Police. So they went to my boss in Communications for some statistical help. What my boss found was that fully 33% (one third) of all serious incidents reported via 000 were not otherwise recorded on the Police computer system. The Police actually attended the incidents and the customers were happy to see them but there were just not enough hours to write everything up on the computer, so 'it never happened'. That didn't account for incidents that did not come from the public via 000. One arrest would see the car crew off the road for around 3 hours doing all the reports and processing.

Further comments deleted as I was getting old, cranky, cynical and my blood pressure was getting up.

[Dengue]

Nothing has changed bsrlee. Talking with some of the local Police including a family member, up to OIC of one of the large stations in Townsville, the biggest complaint is paperwork

[rustynail]

I grew up in far west NSW. My Dad was the local cop, back in the days when a cop had to work on his own. Our town had a bad reputation when we arrived. Within twelve months things had started to improve dramatically. Why? Mutual respect. Dad gave it and expected it. He preferred not to use the usual law enforcing methods, instead he opted for a more personal approach; involvement in sports, setting up a boxing gym etc etc.I was always accepted by the local community, even being white.
You may notice I do not mention the word indigenous here. There is a reason for that. As kids we didnt give a rat's posterior what colour we were, we were just mates, pure and simple.
Your problem in QLD is nothing new. This is what segregation and racism creates. You can bounce these kids as often as you like with heavy-handed policing, but it will get you nowhere.
Time to talk to the Elders. That is if they are still talking to you.

[Mobyturns]

Yes it is a complex problem, with many causes and many possible solutions. A young lady I regularly meet has been a volunteer at one of the local PCYC's for quite a few years now. Only a few weeks ago she was saying that she and many of her volunteer mates are very concerned that funding allocations have changed dramatically which means that many of the programs that they are involved in supporting have to be reduced or stopped. Less things for at risk kids to do.

[A Duke]

Hi,
My Gran used to say "The Devil finds work for idle hands", but I think idle minds are a bigger problem and more dangerous.
Regards

[rustynail]

Yes it is a complex problem, with many causes and many possible solutions. A young lady I regularly meet has been a volunteer at one of the local PCYC's for quite a few years now. Only a few weeks ago she was saying that she and many of her volunteer mates are very concerned that funding allocations have changed dramatically which means that many of the programs that they are involved in supporting have to be reduced or stopped. Less things for at risk kids to do.
Tokenism has always been part of the problem. Programs get started, but before too long, funding is cut, staff become jaded and seek greener pasture and the whole thing dies on the vine. Without personal commitment it is hard for anybody to tough it out.
A true story: A couple of years ago I took my wife and kids back to my old home town. It had been 30 years since we left. Sadly, things had deteriorated noticeably. Police paddy wagon patrolled the street constantly. Not much other sign of life.
I left the car at the petrol station and took a stroll down the main drag/memory lane. The patrol car pulled up along side of me and a fat, belligerent looking young copper demanded to know where I thought I was going. I told him, "For a walk to stretch my legs." I was told I could go stretch my legs some place else. I declined. Did I mention belligerence earlier? I was then informed I had ten minutes to get out of town as they already had enough trouble to deal with. I explained I wasn't there to cause trouble, just for a bit of a stroll. I was informed I only had 9 minutes left.
I continued walking. Pulling along side again, the friendly constable went ballistic! Informing me that a fellow officer had recently had a broken bottle held to his throat and told he had an hour to get out of town. I said I knew how he felt and at least he got more than ten minutes. I asked after an old school mate's address and was told, "That coon bastard. Yeah, he's still here." And pointing to the house.
I thanked the officer for his time and said I would go and call on my old mate, doing my utmost to comply with my curfew, but couldnt promise anything. I just got a grunt and the patrol car drove off. Upon reaching the house and knocking, a tall, graying Aboriginal man answered. I asked him if he was who I thought he was. He nodded and asked who I was. I told him and he grabbed me in a bear hug, dragged me inside and slammed the door. I told him about what had happened earlier and he said things had changed dramatically since we had left. None for the better. He was now one of the Elders and had been trying to broker relations between the police and the local youth for some time. Some of the stories he told were horrific.
I collected the family and left the town as directed...be it a little bit late.
One thing was for sure, I much prefered the company of my old school mate than the cop.