Bob Dylan won a Nobel prize for literature

[doug3030]

The times they are a'changin :oo: :no:

[derekcohen]

Well deserved! He changed the world with his insightful lyrics and poetry.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ian]

My immediate thought when I heard was these lyrics from Eric Bogle

Do you know any Dylan

When I was nineteen I was young, I was keen
I had only one burning ambition
To be a folk-singer, a dope-smoking swinger
Singing songs that were based on tradition
So I bought a guitar and I practiced real hard
I wasn't much good but I was willing
Till to my chagrin my girlfriend walked in
And she asked, "can you sing any Bob Dylan"

Chorus:
I said, "No, no, a thousand times no
I'd rather see my life's blood spilling
I'll sing anything, even God Save The Queen
But I just won't sing any Bob Dylan"

So with my guitar I traveled real far
Trying to gain recognition
I sung me songs all over, from Glasgow to Dover
In pubs, clubs and in seamen's missions
I've traveled the road now for seven long years
The pace sure it was killing
And everywhere that I went from Dublin to Kent
They asked, "can ye sing some Bob Dylan"

Ever since then, again and again
I get asked this same bloody question
And I always reply in my own quiet way
With a totally indecent suggestion
But the last straw came one night at the Holiday Inn
I had a young girl and she was willing
So I unzipped her dress, she said, "I'll say yes
If you only will sing some Bob Dylan!"

I said yes.......eh, no!, a thousand times........ etc

Well now my friends, that was the end
Of all my traditional aspirations
Cause if being a folkie means losing your nookie
There's one way to end the frustration
So the next time I appeared at the Old Dublin Pub
The audience as usual were willing
I took me coat and I ruptured me throat
And I started to sing like Bob Dylan

.......... Do your best imitation of a well-known Bob Dylan song..........

Well the audience went wild
Every man woman and child
And they clapped till their raw hands were
And they said that, so to speak, my style was unique
And it was just what the folk scene was needing
So all you young folkies who can bash out a song
If you want to obtain the top billing
You'll murder all the pros, just sing through your nose
And then you'll sound just like Bob Dylan!

[cava]

When they gave Barack Obama a peace prize for starting wars, it was then that I realised the Nobel Awards had reached a new low and were substantially irrelevant.

This was confirmed with Bob Dylans award.

(Just for the record, I do like some of his songs)

[TermiMonster]

When they gave Barack Obama a peace prize for starting wars, it was then that I realised the Nobel Awards had reached a new low and were substantially irrelevant.



I thought Henry Kissinger's was a vastly lower point than Barack Obama.
I was a bit peeved when I saw him dishing out medals at the 2000 Olympics. (To Marion Jones, if I remember correctly) HK is not my favourite yank (not my least favourite, but most don't get Nobel prizes for dropping bucketloads of bombs.)
TM

[ian]

When they gave Barack Obama a peace prize for starting wars,I thought Barack's award was for not being George Bush !

From the official site:
The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples".

Given that nominations for the 2009 Peace prize closed 11 days after Obama was sworn in, (allowing for the time difference between Washington and Sweden), Barack must have done something extraordinary that we have all forgotten in those 11 days.

[derekcohen]

Can one equate prizes for literature with peace? There is no doubting that politics plays a part in these choices

Nevertheless, in my opinion, Bob Dylan deserves the award. This is recognition for his being the voice of a generation, the soul of Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs. History shows that his lyrics and music contributed significantly to the moral outrage in the Vietnam era, and beyond. He was the voice.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[doug3030]

He was the voice.

Just one of the many voices from that era.

[derekcohen]

Just one of the many voices from that era.

True, but one needs a significant body of work to qualify as a laureate. Who else of that era would you nominate ahead of (or alongside) Dylan?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[BobL]

If Winston Churchill deserves a Nobel Prize for literature then so does Bob.

[doug3030]

Derek, I would rather spend my time exchanging ideas with someone whose mind is not fully committed to their original opinion. That is futile so I am not going there.

I just came in to sing a couple of bars of "Alice's Restaurant" and walk out again.

Cheers

Doug

[Lappa]

True, but one needs a significant body of work to qualify as a laureate. Who else of that era would you nominate ahead of (or alongside) Dylan?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Leonard Cohen for one.

[derekcohen]

With a name like that he should have won! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen]

Derek, I would rather spend my time exchanging ideas with someone whose mind is not fully committed to their original opinion. That is futile so I am not going there.

I just came in to sing a couple of bars of "Alice's Restaurant" and walk out again.

Cheers

Doug

Doug, I opened the conversation. I did not close it. To repeat, do you have alternate candidate(s)?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[BobL]

Doug, I opened the conversation. I did not close it. To repeat, do you have alternate candidate(s)?

Regards from Perth

Derek

His cryptic or obvious answer suggests Arlo Guthrie?

I would not call myself an aficionado of either but FWIW I think Arlo is a superior entertainer/singer but Dylan is the better writer and is somewhat more prolific, and the prize is for literature (inc poetry).

Here's Cohen on Dylan winning the award
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/14/leonard-cohen-giving-nobel-to-bob-dylan-like-pinning-medal-on-everest

I don't really care who wins it out of those three - its finally an appropriate tribute to that type of protest subversive poetry which my parents laughed at and ridiculed.

I have to admit I will be narked if a rapper gets it in my lifetime!

[doug3030]

Who else of that era would you nominate ahead of (or alongside) Dylan? ...

...Doug, I opened the conversation. I did not close it. To repeat, do you have alternate candidate(s)?

Yes Derek, you did indeed ask the question but in the way you worded it, you also attempted to to restrict the scope of my reply by making it appear that the only candidates for the 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature had to come from the same era as Bob Dylan, presumably meaning the protest era, but his career and influence went on much longer than that, as did the careers and influences of his contemporaries.

I will not be baited into picking another artist from the protest era and put them up as being more worthy just so that you can attempt to draw me into a futile argument. The Nobel Prize for literature for 2016 could have come from a much wider base of candidates than Protest Era singer/songwriters and as far as I am aware they do not even have had to have published their work in the English language.

Now I like a lot of Dylan's work, as I like the work of many of his contemporaries, but if it was up to me (which it isn't) would I give any of them a noble literary prize? I do not think so. It will be 50 years before details of who other nominees were for this year's awards under the rules for the Nobel Prize so it is unlikely that we will be having the debate about who was hard done by.

You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.

Cheers

Doug

[derekcohen]

Doug, my question about another candidate from that era was in response to your statement, "Just one of the many voices from that era."

Regards from Perth

Derek

[doug3030]

Doug, my question about another candidate from that era was in response to your statement, "Just one of the many voices from that era."

I think I answered that above, didn't I?

[ian]

Can one equate prizes for literature with peace? There is no doubting that politics plays a part in these choices

Yes and yes.

You are right that politics plays a big part in the peace and literature awards -- because at the end of the day both are very subjective and no doubt, literature contains a measure of "who's turn is it"


I was doing the NSW HSC around the time that Patrick White got his laureate for literature -- I recall that almost the only people in Australia buying his works were students forced to do so because two or three of his novels were on the prescribed reading list.

[ian]

Doug, I opened the conversation. I did not close it. To repeat, do you have alternate candidate(s)?with my cynic's hat on ...

the 2016 Peace prize was awarded for a peace deal which, while very significant, fell over at the last hurdle, and in the process of falling over exposed a major flaw in how many such peace deals are negotiated.

in terms of nominating someone else for the Literature prize, this is Ladbrokes top 10 list
Ngũgĩ Wa Thiong’o 4/1 --
Haruki Murakami 5/1
Adonis 6/1
Philip Roth 12/1
Jon Fosse 12/1
Ko Un 14/1
Don DeLillo 14/1
Javier Marias 16/1
Ismail Kadare 20/1
Joyce Carol Oates 20/1

But it's more fun reading some of the commentary.
From the New Republic
[America is] due! We really are. An American hasn’t won the Nobel since Toni Morrison won in freaking 1993. But 2016 is not America’s year. For one thing, any American who won would probably have to say something about the Age of Trump or whatever in their Nobel lecture. And don’t get me wrong: The Nobel Committee would love nothing more than to send a passive-aggressive signal to America by awarding the prize to someone who stands for everything Donald Trump opposes.

Bob Dylan 100 percent is not going to win. Stop saying Bob Dylan should win the Nobel Prize.

[Lappa]

I have to admit I will be narked if a rapper gets it in my lifetime!

I heard a song on the radio the other day I hadn't heard before. Searching found it's a song called Empire State of Mind by Alicia Keyes.
I listened to a live version (beautiful) then went looking for other versions and I came across a version by Jay Z.
Near threw up:oo:

[rustynail]

Oh this is embarrassing: Back as a first year apprentice we had one in our midst who had the audacity to inform us that he was Bob Dylan's cousin, insisting that his father and Bob's were brothers. We thought this a huge joke as his name was Zimmerman:doh:

[AlexS]

I think Arlo is a superior entertainer/singer but Dylan is the better writer and is somewhat more prolific, and the prize is for literature (inc poetry).Have to agree with you, Bob. As a writer of words that had an effect on the world, I can't think of anyone more deserving than Dylan.

[ian]

Have to agree with you, Bob. As a writer of words that had an effect on the world, I can't think of anyone more deserving than Dylan. Peter Carey, Tom Keneally -- to name an Australian or two...


I still like what the New Republic wrote on October 6th -- a week BEFORE the announcement

[America is] due! We really are. An American hasn’t won the Nobel since Toni Morrison won in freaking 1993. But 2016 is not America’s year. For one thing, any American who won would probably have to say something about the Age of Trump or whatever in their Nobel lecture. And don’t get me wrong: The Nobel Committee would love nothing more than to send a passive-aggressive signal to America by awarding the prize to someone who stands for everything Donald Trump opposes.

Bob Dylan 100 percent is not going to win. Stop saying Bob Dylan should win the Nobel Prize.

[Twisted Tenon]

2 extra I would throw into the mix are Joan Baez and Simon & Garfunkle. I was never a fan of Dylan until his words were sung by other people.

TT

[Sawdust Maker]

To all the critics of Dylan getting the award - why not? And I'm not asking that xxx deserved it more


...


I was doing the NSW HSC around the time that Patrick White got his laureate for literature -- I recall that almost the only people in Australia buying his works were students forced to do so because two or three of his novels were on the prescribed reading list.

I never could read to whole of Voss!

[Big Shed]

2 extra I would throw into the mix are Joan Baez and Simon & Garfunkle. I was never a fan of Dylan until his words were sung by other people.

TT

Which is probably why he got the Nobel Price for Literature and not for Singing.:;

[Twisted Tenon]

Which is probably why he got the Nobel Price for Literature and not for Singing.:;




Yes I was thinking that too Fred. Paul Simon was as prolific a writer as Dylan and a whole lot sweeter to listen to. Whereas I believe Joan Baez made Dylan listenable :rolleyes:

TT

[doug3030]

Which is probably why he got the Nobel Price for Literature and not for Singing.:;

Or maybe it is just because there is not a category in the Nobel Prize for singing :rolleyes:

[Big Shed]

Or maybe it is just because there is not a category in the Nobel Prize for singing :rolleyes:


There is that:q

[Toymaker Len]

Dylan was the profound poet of the age. It is a joy to finally see him recognised by the establishment.

[BobL]

Apart from Winston Churchill the Nobel prize is not awarded for vocal style.

One measure of Dylan's "reach" is the number of times (1379) his songs have been covered by others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_have_covered_Bob_Dylan_songs

All "Along the watchtower" has been recorded by 31 artists - jimmy Hendrix version is probably my favourite.
Blowing in the Wind by 64 artists
Its all over now Baby Blue 28 times
Etc

The Beatles have had 2048 songs covered by other artists - don't forget there were 4 of them.
And
Leonard Cohen songs have been covered 3119 times.
On that basis I can see why he is a bit miffed.

[ian]

I never could read to whole of Voss!
For me it was Tree of Man

[Yanis]

Barack Obama - The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 to President Barack Obama - Press Release (http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html)
Bob Dylan - The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 - Prize Announcement (http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2016/announcement.html)

I think one really needs to be an expert in the field to understand the thinking behind the particular award.

If you look back at the way BA changed the way diplomacy was approached he brought a non-confrontational approach to diplomacy that was missing for many years and was a breath of fresh air.

Although it is true that there were many great artists in the 60s and some of them worth celebrating I can see why Dylan was chosen. He really defined a generation.

I can see why both were awarded but in the end I am a grateful spectator.

John

[doug3030]

Although it is true that there were many great artists in the 60s and some of them worth celebrating I can see why Dylan was chosen. He really defined a generation.

The Nobel Prize for Literature is not restricted to "great artists in the 60s". :no:

[ian]

Barack Obama - The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 to President Barack Obama - Press Release (http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html)
Bob Dylan - The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 - Prize Announcement (http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2016/announcement.html)

I think one really needs to be an expert in the field to understand the thinking behind the particular award.

If you look back at the way BA changed the way diplomacy was approached he brought a non-confrontational approach to diplomacy that was missing for many years and was a breath of fresh air.
BA might have changed the US's approach to diplomacy, but in 2009, the year he was awarded the prize, nominations for the prize CLOSED a mere 12 days after he was inaugurated. That's less than a blink of an eye and right at the beginning of a president's first 100 days.

[kiwigeo]

True, but one needs a significant body of work to qualify as a laureate. Who else of that era would you nominate ahead of (or alongside) Dylan?

Regards from Perth

Derek


Joni Mitchell...she did pen the theme song to Woodstock.