It's NOT a long weekend it's ANZAC DAY - LEST WE FORGET!!!

[crowie]

It's NOT a long weekend it's ANZAC DAY - LEST WE FORGET!!!

Apologies for being pedanticbut I'm become quite annoyed at all the media about the upcoming long weekend...

Both my grandfathers fort in World War 1, my dad fort in World War 2 plus I'm an ex-servicemen.

ANZAC DAY is a NATIONAL MEMORIAL DAY to stop and remember all the men and woman who fort and died in wars and it was done for Australia, for us.

PLEASE, politely remind folk you talk with who mention "we have a long weekend", thank you. Cheers, crowie
.

[fletty]

I'm off to the dawn service and march again. Dad's medals are all polished and ready ... and are probably more polished and ready than I am!
Last year, the Sydney contingent of his WW2 Squadron was down to only 5, all of whom are in their mid nineties and I fear the end is nigh. I guess that the year will come soon where the descendant children and grandchildren wait at the start point but there's no national treasures left so we furl the squadron flag and take it to the AWM.
Every year I have attended, the crowds get bigger, the feelings more palpable and the wishes more heartfelt. I must attend.

fletty

[artme]

Spot on Crowie!!!

My grandfather was a Galipolli veteran who was, after the event, shipped to France where he was gassed and wounded by
shrapnell just before the end of the war. He spent many months in England recovering in hospital before returning home.

Five of my father's family enlisted for WW2 Three, including dad, were Rats of Tobruk and were in Milne Bay to help inflict
the first defeat that the Japanese army suffered.

I have great respect for this national Memorial day. When possible I attend the Dawn Service. One Dawn Service was
attended at Greenslopes Repat. where dad was sent when he returned from New Guinea. Very moving.

When in Nz recently I went to the Te Papa museum in Wellington and spent an hour in the Anzac exhibition there. It was like
looking into a mirror!! I am always impressed by the attendance of our Kiwi friends at Anzac commemorations and i am also
impressed by the attendance of young people at services, including the Dawn Service.

Curses on this long weekend nonsense. Anzac is not about a holiday and should be held absolutely sacred in our national conscience.

Amen!!

[elanjacobs]

ANZAC DAY is a NATIONAL MEMORIAL DAY to stop and remember all the men and woman who fort and died in wars and it was done for Australia, for us.

The reason for the public holiday is not relevant to it being called a long weekend; we have Monday off, therefore it is a long weekend by definition.
You may not agree with what people do on it or how they do or do not commemorate it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's, effectively, a 3 day weekend.

[Bob38S]

'Nuff said.

[chambezio]

I don't think that Rugby League should be played on ANZAC Day. To my mind it doesn't seem right. It is a day we should reflect and be thankful we have what we have because of those who went into battle all that time ago

[Big Shed]

Perhaps we should close all the pubs as well, no 2-up games either?

I think ANZAC day is being turned in to something it was never meant to be almost a religious occasion.

The diggers would scratch their heads in wonder.

Traditionally it has always been a day of reflection in the morning with the dawn service followed by the march.

Then in the afternoon there have been sporting events as long as I can remember, eg NRL as well as the traditional AFL Essendon-Collingwood match.

Before I would cancel all sporting events I would like to see all the commercialisation of ANZAC day as well as people at ANZAC cove dressed in the Australian flag laying paralytic on the beach banned.

[Bedford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKGfnBdR0R0

[justonething]

The reason for the public holiday is not relevant to it being called a long weekend; we have Monday off, therefore it is a long weekend by definition.
You may not agree with what people do on it or how they do or do not commemorate it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's, effectively, a 3 day weekend.
It is a long weekend, but not just a long weekend. It's the ANZAC weekend. The diggers fought for our freedom, including the freedom to do what we wish on this long weekend. When Collingwood plays Essendon, they are also celebrating the freedom to express themselves, freedom that we got as a result of the sacrifices made by the generations before us. We normal punters who go out to support our teams this weekend, can be grateful we get to do that in a land of the free (a phrase borrowed from you know who!).

[chemfish]

I must be one of the few that just considers it a long weekend. The genesis of the ANZACS was in the first world war and WW1 was more of a war rooted in strategic alliances than any notion of fighting for freedom, hell, how many people could even point to Bosnia on a map let alone give a detailed comentary on the regions early 20th century politics? So, forget WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Korea etc? no, but days sat aside to remember just ones own fallen seem somehow disrespectful and counter productive to the notion of trying to avoid wars.

[fletty]

It certainly saddens me to read that but one thing we can be proud of is that Australia is a country where everyone CAN have their own opinion. Even in the 21st Century there are still surprisingly few countries that truly do.
Maybe it is because I am older and that I was privileged to have known WW1 and WW2 veterans but for me, it can never be just a day off. I have spent much of my life travelling for work and 2 tiny snippets of that travel that I think of on ANZAC Day, are travelling through a particular derelict Australian village and the fields of Northern France.
I can take you to the ruins of a village near the Snowy Mountains where all of the young men who left to go to WW1 did not return. In one generation that village also died. In Northern France just prior to Anzac Day, it seems that so many Australians and New Zealanders, young and old, are all heading in one direction. To me it was impossible not to join them so I bailed out of my work trip. The French town of Villers Bretoneaux, the target for so many of these Antipodean travellers, also celebrates Anzac Day and with much more reverence than we do because, to them, Anzac Day represents their freedom. It was Australian soldiers who literally freed them in 1918. To bring us back to woodwork, the old village school in Villers Bretoneaux is a timber structure, made as a flat pack in Victoria and erected by Australian soldiers waiting to be shipped home at war's end. Around the doors are carved Australian wild flowers and above the door is carved "Do not forget Australia" ...... and they haven't.
It's a personal thing.

fletty

[chemfish]

My point isn't one of not caring for australian losses, it's one that everyone has a sad story when it comes to war, something that I fear is lost when countries start celebrating days just for their fallen. Certainly in school I was never taught the larger impact of WW1, just a very Australia-centric view point, noble Australian beach landings, Australian bravery and ingenuity etc. Especially with conflicts like WW1 I find it very hard to assign a "bad" side, if Britain had signed an agreement with Germany we would have fought on a different side, if France had signed an agreement with Germany we could have been invading that village, if there was no european power struggle there most likely would never have been the phrase "world war". I would prefer a "war is a really $#&^%! thing so lets try not to kill anyone this year" day than any country specific day.... maybe that name needs some work from a marketing guy.

[OldGrain]

Both my parents were born & raised in India by my British grandparents who had settled there.Dad would be signed to 2nd Royal Berkshire (North Cheam).Once conflict broke out along the Afghan/India borders/Burma Railway he was then assigned to 9th Hydrabad. As a Major,would accept the Salute from COS Roberts as he led his troop past the Secretariat Bld in KL in the Victory March.He was in his time the youngest Major being 26 years old & gazetted in a supplement issued from & thanked by the Whitehall Office UK.
Do we need a long week end? I really don`t think so.It`s just an excuse to get over a hangover.We should remember the Fallen for who they are,how we belong in their Fight & get on with being productive on what should be a working Monday.

[Handyjack]

Here is a link to a silent 2 minute video. Australasian Gazette – A Unique Audience (c1920) clip 1 on ASO - Australia's audio and visual heritage online (http://aso.gov.au/titles/newsreels/australasian-gazette-unique/clip1/?ct=t%28Alfred_Health_News_Round_2_November11_2_2015%29&mc_cid=7559e1334e&mc_eid=cb788a7f49)
It is a reminder of the effects of war, most of which last a life time in one way or another. When you watch the video also observe the back ground and the traffic on Glenhuntly Road.
The hospital and the cinema both still exist today although their names have changed. On Friday (22nd April) there was a service at the hospital in memory of its founding history.

[BobL]

I don't like the focus on the term ANZAC because unfortunately the great unwashed think that this day is only about the Gallipoli campaign.

For those who have read enough history Gallipoli is increasingly being unravelled as a campaign with dubious merit, poor planning and secrecy, and exposing the sheer arrogance and folly of the British admiralty. Some historians now consider it an out and out invasion in support of the greedy Ruskies attempt to grab Eastern European / Balkan territory and influence - which is why Russia entered WWI to begin with. The more I read about the more I fume over the sheer stupidity of the whole thing and the futile loss of life of some of our finest. Most Australians also think it was only Australian and NZ troops involved on the side of the Allies. Four times more Brits died at Gallipoli even more french troops died than Australians. Many of the Brits were Irish volunteers and per capita they suffered the highest casualties.

If any one battle or action should have greater significance and recognition for Australians it should be Kokoda. Here was a bunch of Chocos, with very limited training, gear and support who fought the experienced battle hardened Japs to a standstill in conditions that few folks appreciate and film cannot capture. This was also an action in direct defence of Australia. These blokes don't get anywhere near enough recognition.

I'd like see a stronger emphasis on the efforts of all our service people, especially those that are still around today many of whom have to do the very dirty work of bully boy sycophantic pollies.

FWIW, 3 of my Italian great uncles and my grandfather living in the Alps were conscripted and fought in WWI for the Austrians on the Russian front. All except my grandfather were killed - frozen to death in a swamp. These Alpine Italian-Austrians were considered too unreliable to fight against the Italians fighting the allies side so they were sent to the Russian front . Few Australians know about the sheer brutality of the Eastern Front fighting, conditions, prisoner treatments, ethnic cleansing and genocide etc some of which makes even the western front look like a picnic.

[artme]

Bobble your contributions always bring in some interesting, and often unknown points.

I think your point about Kokoda is absolutely correct and this is a point of view that
is gaining more currency. Let us hope it will be given due recognition, just as the battle of
Long Tan has been given recognition for the Viet Nam vets.

Yes, Gallipoli was a bloody disaster in every respect but the point of Anzac Day, I feel, is to
remember sacrifices in all wars. The fact that Anzac Day was the first of these commenorative
services gives it such a lot of clout in its primacy, but this should not diminish the thought of
other events. This also seems to be an attitude that is gaining clarity.

War is a dirty business and the sorts of brutality you mention often go unnoticed in the greater picture.
The culpability of politicians and military leaders is never really investigated thoroughly and certainly no
politician is ever brought to account for their actions. Some might say the ballot box does that, but is
that enough??

Crazy things happen in war. My Gallipoli grandather had to change his name before enlisting. His name was
was Peter Wilhelm Lehn and his father was Danish. The Wilhelm was changed to William for pretty obvious reasons!

My father's mother had been widowed a number of years before marrying one Vince Furst, an Austrian. Vince had
jumped ship somewhere along the Cape and eventually ended up in the Kyogle area where he worked in the timber
game alongside my father and his brothers. Vince was a well known and vociferous Hitler hater but at the outbreak of
WW2 he still hadn't become a naturalized citizen. On that account my grandmother was told to either divorce Vince or be
treated as an enemy alien and have her citizenship stripped from her!! Grandma refused to "do that to poor Vince": and had
her citizenship stripped. It was in the early 50s that Grandma had to go through a naturalization ceremony to regain her
citizenship! All this despite having five enlisted sons!!

Yes, war has strange consequences for the innocent and terrible consequences for those involved. There seem to be no answers
for our continued stupidity just as there will never be any finality in this debate about commemoration and remembrance. I see this
as healthy as it keeps our thoughts in the right place.

[BobL]

Yes, war has strange consequences for the innocent and terrible consequences for those involved. There seem to be no answers
for our continued stupidity just as there will never be any finality in this debate about commemoration and remembrance. I see this
as healthy as it keeps our thoughts in the right place.

Good Point.

Interesting story about your grandma - so many people got caught up like that.

In the last 3-4 years I have read /listened to a bunch of stuff about WWI/II

The following were free audio books from librivox on WWI.
aeroplanes and dirigibles
high_adventure_mv_
How I filmed_WWI
Journal impressions belgium
sword of deborah
uboathunter
canadas_hundred_days

Other books include
1914, Sandakan, Kokoda, Hiroshima, and Vietnam by Paul Ham
Biography of Monash - the best rated german general on the Western Front.
Biography of Charles Bean
The Regeneration Trilogy, and Life Class by Pat Barker.
The Korean War, Nemisis battle for Japan, Warriors, Battle for the Falklands, Das Reich, by Max Hastings
Flak, and Fly by Michael Veitch
Tobruk, Gallipoli, Kokoda and Fromelles and Pozières: In the trenches of Hell (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=XlPZCQAAQBAJ) by Peter Firzsimons

And the top of the pile which I just finished last week
To Hell and back - European history from 1914 to 1949 , a 24+ hour audio book - quite dry but serious gap filling detail especially about what happened on the Eastern fronts of WWI/II

In the past I have also read many books on various battles and war stories; Stalingrad, Berlin, Sicily, Gallipoli, Palestine, Greece campaign, Russian fronts, Burma, Changi, The Burma railway, Afghanistan.

With every book I read my estimation of the blokes and women who slogged it out in these theatres just keeps on increasing and just never seems to stop.

[q9]

Imma let you finish...

Terribly awesome sentiments, and it is great so many feel so strongly.

BUT

Our war veterans don't just belong in the past. We have plenty going on right now. ANZAC is the tradition, but it is alive. It breathes today.

So what's my point? Well, my family has had someone in every generation serve since the Boer War. My brother served, and did 2 years in Cambodia. So we "get" this. Recently my brother has started some work with Legacy Victoria, and they need you. We still have families being devastated and affected RIGHT NOW through our deployments overseas. Legacy does, because the government doesn't.

https://www.legacy.com.au/donate

[q9]

...and yes my grandfather would be turning in his grave if he knew I was in Japan with the "bloody nips!"

[Bob38S]

...and yes my grandfather would be turning in his grave if he knew I was in Japan with the "bloody nips!"

Can understand what would be your grandfather's sentiments but then was then and now is now. It wasn't you and it wasn't them. You appear to have dealt with it and moved on, I can fully appreciate this as my family was in occupied Holland and have also moved on.

History is is what it is and can't be changed, nor should it be forgotten but likewise we can't live in the past and perpetuate history's mistakes.

[crowie]

I visited Terrigal's Special ANZAC Memorial yesterday...

The sun will rise over the top of the hill on this poppy garden...

A labour of love and respect!

Too many lost, in too many wars and conflicts...We Will Remember Them..






And something else to think upon...

Australia has something like 3000 homeless ex-service personnel in out towns & cities....

[artme]

Unfortunately tommorow will be one of the few times, through circumstances beyond my control, that I will miss
attending an ANZAC service of any sort.

As I have an extremely bad head cold - only the second in 10 years - I have not slept well and will not be attending the Dawn service
because Ana's sister and her husband are here in Australia from Brazil and we have to drive to Bris to pick them up. I will of course try
to explain the day to them.