This conversation may be recorded.

[Grumpy John]

I'm currently having a dispute with Telstra over what was said and what's being delivered in respect to a plan we are currently on. After lodging a complaint with the TIO, Telstra have contacted us and asked what the conditions on the contract were. When I told them that there was no contract and that everything was done over the phone they told me that they would have to listen to the recording before they could comment any further. When I asked for a copy of the conversation they said it was not possible without escalating the complaint to the next level. I'll be contacting the TIO today to see what the next level is.

[jimbur]

The idea that a contract is legally defined by a recording that is only in the hands of one party to the agreement is a strange one. Let's face it, they can't even be sure of the identity of the person they were speaking to. Good luck John.

[tdrumnut]

Give it to em John, I've been down this path and when they couldn't produce the taped conversation they gave in probably because they didn't have one in the first place.

[Grumpy John]

Apparently it's becoming commonplace, particularly in the energy and telecommunications industry to assume that just because you listen to their spiel that you have agreed to their terms and conditions and you suddenly find yourself with a new energy provider or telephone provider. I know of one other forum member who may like to share his experience.

[nrb]

When we changed to Momentun energy they read out the conditions and asked of I agreed,I said I did then they said that verbal was the basis of a contract,they also said it had been recorded.
Have had same with telsra but not told it was a contract,they say they record everything but Idoubt it as like you I questioned the conditions and asked for them to replay our conversations,they would not,too hard they said.
Then they accepted my version and we moved on to my way,keep at them they are not good with customer service so keep plugging away.

Verbal contracts do exist I believe

[DJ’s Timber]

Apparently it's becoming commonplace, particularly in the energy and telecommunications industry to assume that just because you listen to their spiel that you have agreed to their terms and conditions and you suddenly find yourself with a new energy provider or telephone provider. I know of one other forum member who may like to share his experience.

Which is exactly why I have caller ID on my home phone, if its a blocked or overseas number I don't answer it and if it isn't one I recognise I run it thru http://www.reverseaustralia.com/ to verify who it is if they don't leave a message.

[BobL]

I have had similar problems with insurance companies with them saying one thing but delivering something else . Mobile phones apps that record are available. I haven't done so yet but from now on anytime I call a utility etc I will be recording what is said.

[Pat]

I love these. My answer is to ask for them to send all information in writing at their expense and to say that if they are not willing then they are not deserving of my custom.

Especially my current power retailer, whom on occasion tries to get us on a contract - phone only specials. I want to be able to read the contract in peace and compare the prices, before deciding on changing from the current system to whatever they are hawking.

I especially dislike it when they ring my parents and try to buffalo them into buying stuff. Now my parents tell the annoying cretins, that they have to refer to me as I have the final legal say on the matter.

[Bushmiller]

I'm currently having a dispute with Telstra over what was said and what's being delivered in respect to a plan we are currently on. After lodging a complaint with the TIO, Telstra have contacted us and asked what the conditions on the contract were. When I told them that there was no contract and that everything was done over the phone they told me that they would have to listen to the recording before they could comment any further. When I asked for a copy of the conversation they said it was not possible without escalating the complaint to the next level. I'll be contacting the TIO today to see what the next level is.

GJ

My understanding is that a contract can be written, of course, or verbal, but in the latter instance the issue that occurs is the difficulty of verifying the agreement assuming no witnesses. However that presumeably works both ways. Keep at them.

SWMBO got caught with AAPT who somehow "took over" the telephone account without permission and it was paid without agreement but in error. Apparently, at the time which was quite a few years ago, the paying of the bill constituted an agreement!

We only ever paid once and then kicked up a monumental stink. They backed down pretty quickly and I suspect the laws have since been changed to make that practice illegal.

SWMBO regularly has a telephone (ironic isn't it) battle about once a month with Telstra. They clash badly :rolleyes: .

Regards
Paul

[lightwood]

I'm currently having a dispute with Telstra over what was said and what's being delivered in respect to a plan we are currently on. After lodging a complaint with the TIO, Telstra have contacted us and asked what the conditions on the contract were. When I told them that there was no contract and that everything was done over the phone they told me that they would have to listen to the recording before they could comment any further. When I asked for a copy of the conversation they said it was not possible without escalating the complaint to the next level. I'll be contacting the TIO today to see what the next level is.
GJ,
Go hard at them!
In my experience there seems to be a standard telco practice, that is to misrepresent the contract in the conversation before the recorded contract, and after you listen to the recorded statement you agree. However what they do not include in the recorded version are the things they have earlier assured you were part of the contract. It is easy to assume you have agreed to those things as well as the recorded stuff.
This was part of my complaint to Testra late last year.
This has been done to me 3 times now, twice by Optus where it was not recorded, and once by Telstra where they did record.
It is usually in the mobile phone area, and done by outside contractors. Where you are transferred around the place and end up outside the actual telco company, and in the hands of the "business" area or some-such vague description of the division, but it is actually a contractor.
My argument was that the recording would indeed show I agreed to the terms I was not enjoying, because I was dealt with in a very deceptive way.
I was completely successful, when I went to the TIO website, made a complaint, and within a few days got onto a person up the complaints-chain who appeared to be very familiar with this "standard" sales practice. I was immediately sent two iPhone 5 handsets, and two new sim cards. That was only part of my complaint. The other was a completely botched porting of landline number across from Optus to Telstra, and a permanent diversion on that number to a new one. That was fixed after 65 days waiting, in just 48 hours, after the first TIO website contact.
I finally had a call from a bloke who's job it was to settle the matter with some compensation, and report back to the TIO.
I told them I could not actually quantify my loss, (they specifically don't compensate you for your time, or pain and suffering, only an actual monetary loss) so I took a chance and asked for a $2500.00 compensation payment, and we negotiated down to just under $1000.00.
The tragedy is that only 1 in 1000 of the employees or contractors seem to know their ass from their elbow...so you get to the stage were you think you are dealing the poor folk in a sheltered workshop, and start to feel a little sympathy...Then you look at your total spend on communication at the end of the year (this week) and know those clowns are getting well paid at your expense.
Regards,
Peter

[crowie]

Very interesting topic John....
I'm waiting to hear if your outcome is as good as some of the posts.
The whole disappointment in all this is, why do we have to go to the ombudsmen to get a satisfactory outcome to what should be a straight forward business deal where people & businesses do & provide what they say!!!
Good luck. Cheers, crowie

[Bushmiller]

Very interesting topic John....
I'm waiting to hear if your outcome is as good as some of the posts.
The whole disappointment in all this is, why do we have to go to the ombudsmen to get a satisfactory outcome to what should be a straight forward business deal where people & businesses do & provide what they say!!!
Good luck. Cheers, crowie

Peter

I agree and suspect at least part of the problem is the outsourcing of sales staff who are probably paid on a primarily commission basis.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

I'd be mightily interested to see it tested in court.

Give 'em hell GJ.

[Grumpy John]

Very interesting topic John....
I'm waiting to hear if your outcome is as good as some of the posts.
The whole disappointment in all this is, why do we have to go to the ombudsmen to get a satisfactory outcome to what should be a straight forward business deal where people & businesses do & provide what they say!!!
Good luck. Cheers, crowie


This situation with Telstra has been going on for over 6 weeks now. I have tried many times to get it settled, both over the phone and making 2 trips to the Packenham Business Office to deal with the sales manager in person. Each time I came away more confused than when I started. I eventually lodged an official complaint with the TIO on the 20th. July. The TIO advised me that Telstra had 10 working days to respond, they responded within 24 hours. I was given a case number and a contact along with a direct landline number to avoid the automated exchange. If Telstra was serious about customer relations this is the first thing they would have done.

[nrb]

When I had my issue with Telstra I was getting no where,around this time we received a letter from the national customer manager outlining some new thing they were doing.
What I did then after knowing his name was to sent him a registered letter that he had to sign so I could track that it got there.
In the letter I explained my issues and how I had no joy with anyone I had dealt with up to date.
This letter,Aus. post told me would be delivered in 2-3 days,I waited 10 days then sent another one,guess what I got a call from him the next day.(he said he was responding to my first letter HA HA)
I wanted to speak to him live but he said he was only in Melb. now and again and please give him a chance to fix the issue over the phone,after a long conversation he agreed that I had been wronged,credited my account and then added an additional $200 as a good will payment.About 15 minutes after this he rang back saying he had found another $ amount that he had credited to me.
I know that it cost me to send these letters but it was worth it in the end.
Sorry I don't have his name now but I guess that he has gone on to greater things?? and someone else is in that job.
The long and the short of this is DON'T STOP going for your rights.
Good luck

[lightwood]

...........
Sorry I don't have his name now but I guess that he has gone on to greater things?? and someone else is in that job.
The long and the short of this is DON'T STOP going for your rights.
Good luck


This situation with Telstra has been going on for over 6 weeks now. I have tried many times to get it settled, both over the phone and making 2 trips to the Packenham Business Office to deal with the sales manager in person. Each time I came away more confused than when I started. I eventually lodged an official complaint with the TIO on the 20th. July. The TIO advised me that Telstra had 10 working days to respond, they responded within 24 hours. I was given a case number and a contact along with a direct landline number to avoid the automated exchange. If Telstra was serious about customer relations this is the first thing they would have done.

There is nothing more certain than from the top down to a certain level in any large organization there is complete knowledge about how complaints are to be dealt with. There will be a manual to follow and responsibility will be apportioned if the official program is not followed.
There will be a committee of people who wrote that program...what we see is that program being followed. We don't like it, because it is designed to make it difficult to get satisfaction, and for us to loose the motivation to run up the chain of the complaints ladder.
I know enough folk in the corporate world to understand how that works. They are not failures of the system, they are how it was designed to work.
The fact is that if a person has spent too much time in a position where their job is to deflect, and they start to accept responsibility, they will be reprimanded and moved to another position.
I hate this...it goes against everything I have tried to do in my 38 years of service to the public as a self employed business person.

Regards,
Peter

[AlexS]

If you want to adopt nrb's tactics, which seem pretty effective, grab the telco's latest annual report, which will have their registered address and the names of the board and senior management. That should give you some clues as to where to send your registered letter. I'd start with the CEO.

[Grumpy John]

Damn idiots at Telstra sent me an overdue demand today. I was told last week the overdues would be taken care of and I would be getting a credit. They're just giving me more ammo to shoot them down with.

[A Duke]

Damn idiots at Telstra sent me an overdue demand today. I was told last week the overdues would be taken care of and I would be getting a credit. They're just giving me more ammo to shoot them down with.
You are not the only one, after months of argument over my late farther in law's account we arived at a figure we agreed on, $3.60 CR we then got the bill for $3.60 CR and thought that was it, as they can not pay out, only credit the account and that no longer existed, then we got the bill for $15 late payment fee less the $3.60 CR.
How the hell can one be billed for non payment of a credit?
I can't help wondering if it had been handled by some busy lawyer's firm, if some junior clerk would just have paid all the bills as they were presented and they would have scored and his heirs would have had a fat lawyer's bill on top as well.
Regards

[rsser]

There must be a market in selling Telstra dolls for folk to put pins in.

Just been outback again, and you should hear the complaints from country folk. There's little or no competition; they're over a barrell.

Good luck with your prob GJ.

[Grumpy John]

Telstra's 10 days to find a resolution expired today so I contacted the TIO and they've tightened the screws and escalated things a bit more. They were dumfounded that Telstra couldn't/wouldn't give me a copy of the telephone conversation that is, in effect, our contract. My wife is a bit nervous, she is worried that they may stated the terms they are claiming and she just agreed, a bit like reading the contract. I've told her not to worry, as I'm sure if the tapes were in their favour we would have heard by now.

[Chris Parks]

A couple of funny Telstra stories from the distant past.

When my Grandfather passed away Telstra rang my Dad to get Pa's phone bill paid. Pa died a pauper so Dad had great delight in asking how they were going to manage to get money from someone who had no estate. They never rang back.

Remember when we used to have pips on STD calls? Telstra decided to make our phone calls into the next area "community calls" and take the pips away but we would still be paying by the minute. I had a business in town and I arced up over the whole thing and got nowhere. I managed to get a phone number of a manager and everyone who came into my office was asked to ring him and have their two bob's worth. It took 48 hours before he surrendered and assured us the pips would stay on.

[557]

A few years ago we recieved an account from Telstra for $00.00,I ignored it as I didnt think anyone could be that stupid,but apparently they are,as one month later we recieved an overdue account for $00.00.
I rang them and had a frank exchange of views,the nice young lady initially said that the account was in fact overdue, and then must have seen the amount as I heard a distinct "OH".
She said it must be a computer error and that I should ignore the bill.

David.

[Grumpy John]

I just finished a spreadsheet of all the disputed charges with Telstra since we went on to a "more cost effective plan". Since 1st. March this year we are disputing a total of $857.98.
I have been paying all the disputed charges as I don't want to give Telstra any ammo at all. I would like to hit them for time spent on the phone and traveling into the CBD and trips to the local Telstra Business Office, but I'm not sure what the procedure is. I should have kept records of the time spent and K's traveled.

[NCArcher]

GJ, make a bit of a guess as to dates and times, add approx km's and charge them. They can only say no.

[Bushmiller]

GJ, make a bit of a guess as to dates and times, add approx km's and charge them. They can only say no.

Wholeheartedly agree with you on that one Tony. As long as it is within reason I'd be very surprised if Telstra rejected such a claim. My son has also done battle with Telstra (I think he gets it from his mum :rolleyes: ) and on at least one occasion they have wiped his bill and given him credit of many hundreds of dollars to compensate for their stuff up.

Regards
Paul