Carba-Tec needs a new Financial Controller

[Charleville]

Please allow me to vent my frustrations, as others have done from time to time, at the stock management practices at Carba-Tec.

Several times over the past couple of years, I have been disappointed at stock outages at Carba-Tec on a number of straight-forward, consumable items - glues, T track, finishes etc. I have reasoned to myself that they must be having an ongoing series of cash management issues to allow their stock to be managed in the way that it is.

My latest frustrations concern Kreg products.

In recent months, Carba-Tec have run promotions with some useful deals on the Kreg Masters pocket hole drilling jig kits. I took advantage of one such offer and have found the product to be excellent and a lot more useful around the workshop than I thought that it might be so I have been back and augmented the kit with extra clamps and boxes of screws. Carba-Tec and Kreg have been doing OK from my patronage, even though I am just a hobbyist.

Now, wouldn't you think that if a company promoted the sale of a product like the Kreg jig that of necessity requires the use of Kreg brand pocket hole screws, they would stock up on boxes of screws in anticipation that the buyers of the jigs might actually want to use them?

Apparently not because they have been out of stock of the most commonly used Kreg screws for a few weeks now. Still on back order. Sheesh!

So today, I thought that I might go and buy a Kreg shelf pin drilling jig. I had my $45 cash in hand to buy such jig only to discover that there were none and that at this stage, it looks like it will be mid-August before any new stock arrives. Bugger!

Now, I read on forums like this one of all of the virtues of buying locally and supporting the local guy. That's OK but the local guy needs to offer better service than we seem to be getting from Carba-Tec's stock management processes that we are now getting.

So what's a slow talkin' country boy from western Queensland expected to do? Sit around and wait in hope that the Carba-Tec Kreg ship will arrive on time in mid-August?

Not this little black duck. I have just searched the product on line and have ordered it from Amazon in the USA.

Why? Well, you see, it will be delivered in the forecast time frame of 30 July - 9 August; ie sooner than what Carba-Tec tell me that they will have it in their store.

Not only that but the delivered price in Aussie dollars is $35.27. ie about $10 cheaper than Carba-Tec.

Will Amazon meet their forecast delivery dates? I have no doubt that they will because that seems to be a strategy of theirs that they intend to expand on. Especially in the USA itself where they are gearing up for same day delivery...
Amazon same-day delivery: How the e-commerce giant will destroy local retail. - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/07/amazon_same_day_delivery_how_the_e_commerce_giant_will_destroy_local_retail_.html)

I have no doubt that their international deliveries will get similar attention.

Local firms like Carba-Tec really do need to move into the 21st century with their supply chain management.

It must be possible. A few weeks ago, I bought a $300 marine battery charger from this Brisbane based online retailer .... RV Technologies (http://www.rvtek.com.au) . Being a nightowl, I ordered the product at 1.15 am on a Friday.

It was delivered to my door at 1.30 pm on the same day!

I could not believe that such was possible! Check out the customer testimonials on their website to see that super fast delivery is intrinsic to that firm. I hope that they get very rich. The fact that there are no shortage of testimonials on that website, including one from me, tells me that they will be. Interestingly enough, what attracted me to them in the first place was that their price was the cheapest in Australia.

I want Carba-Tec to succeed but if I were a school teacher, I would be giving them a "Must try harder" comment on their annual report card.

Perhaps, they need a new financial controller to implement some new 21st century stock management policies. They are losing business because of their current practices.

[NCArcher]

Frustrating isn't it. I was hoping to pick up one of the Kreg shelf pin jigs at the WWW show. Think I will just order from Amazon as well.

[Sturdee]

I went to CT in Melbourne today as I needed to get two items for the Men's shed. Both items in stock and service with a smile.


Peter.

[Charleville]

I went to CT in Melbourne today as I needed to get two items for the Men's shed. Both items in stock and service with a smile.




Ah yes - I never have any issues with the counter staff. They always try their best and are always as helpful as they can be.


The issue is with their stock management policies.

[jchappo]

I believe that the Kreg stock problems stem from Maxis who are the importers.

[Lumber Bunker]

Weather or not the importers are having traouble, is of no concern to Joe public.
Management of stock and delivery are key to modern retail...

[Charleville]

I believe that the Kreg stock problems stem from Maxis who are the importers.



When I google Kreg, the only Aussie references are to Carbatec. So does that tell me that Carba-Tec is the sole Aussie seller of the jigs?

If so, what value does a middleman like Maxis add? They seem to be just an impediment to slick operations in the emerging real time trading environment.


That sort of supply chain is last millennium's business model. If I can import just one jig economically, Carba-Tec ought to be pursuing the possibility of bypassing Maxis for commercial quantities of product.


.

[Kidbee]

I really think it is a problem right accross the retail spectrum. I called in at the local mower shop and bought a spark plug for a small engine and said I also wanted a tool to insert it; they were out of stock! How many businesses run completely out of stock before they re-order?

[crowie]

Yes buy local & support the Aussie business is great in theory;
BUT when the price is as much as 50% cheaper & the 200% better from overseas.
It's better to move a heap of stock at a smaller margin and have a good service repretation than what I've hear here.
It's so sad.....

[KBs PensNmore]

Carbatec aren't the only ones with stock problems, I went to bunnies in Adelaide (2 WAREHOUSES) wanting a dozen 4" flap discs, walked out with 4 in one place and 6 in another (that was ALL they had)!!!!!!!!!
Went to the local Mitre10 and was asked how many boxes I wanted?????
Carbatec are painfully slow on getting product out the door, a week from ordering till it is posted. Too bad if something was URGENT..:((
Kryn

[Lumber Bunker]

I really think it is a problem right accross the retail spectrum. I called in at the local mower shop and bought a spark plug for a small engine and said I also wanted a tool to insert it; they were out of stock! How many businesses run completely out of stock before they re-order?

Most.

[BobL]

Carbatec aren't the only ones with stock problems, I went to bunnies in Adelaide (2 WAREHOUSES) wanting a dozen 4" flap discs, walked out with 4 in one place and 6 in another (that was ALL they had)!!!!!!!!!
Kryn

I agree, my local bunnings has been out of short M8 HT bolts for months.

My nearest H&F was not able to supply a 14.5 mm MT drill bit for several months. I even found one in the store amongst another size of drill bits and triumphantly went up to the counter with it but the guy on the counter said that he had been looking for that one as it was already sold! He said the mining industry was driving supply crazy with one mine site ordering 1000s of large drill bits. This dried up their AUS supply and they were waiting for more to come in. I was in there two weeks later and the same guy felt sorry for me and went out the back and came back with a drill bit. He said 100, 14.5 mm bits had come in but they were already sold to one mine site! but they could be satisfied with 99 for the time being!

For flap discs I would suggest trying a welding shop supplier. They are usually cheaper than bunnings, different (sometimes superior) product of course so you can't beat buntings withe the 10%.

[Pac man]

Weather or not the importers are having traouble, is of no concern to Joe public.
Management of stock and delivery are key to modern retail...


As a heads up if you were looking to but a Veritas BUS or LA Jointer today on sale in Sydney forget it. BUS computer says 2 but only diplay model in the cabinet. Jointer computer says no. Wonder if there will be any stock at the sydney show?

I have written an email via there web page asking them to convince me why i should shop there. Will let you know if i get an answer.

BTW the person who answered the phone was polite. People = good ( mostly) Systems and Processes = bad

[dabbler]

BTW the person who answered the phone was polite. People = good ( mostly) Systems and Processes = bad

I know what you're saying and I agree. However just remember that if you can talk to people then people are part of the system and processes. And people (sometimes with the best intentions) can break systems. Just read BobL's most recent post on H&F drill bits.

Thirty plus years ago I worked for a national agricultural spare parts distributor in the early days of computerized inventory control. It was common for sales staff to raid shelves and incoming stock orders for selected in-demand parts, so that they physically had control of them for their preferred customers and dealers. The first time I saw a hand written card with 2xRBD I had to ask several other staff before one confessed it meant "two in Roger's bottom drawer" !! Staff would occasionally partly dis-assemble factory kits in order to get hard to get parts that rarely broke and forget to replace them once stock arrived.

So nothing I hear on read on stock control surprises me. Very little we experience is new to the world. And don't get me wrong. This place was efficient and profitable, but the odd disaster was .... well - disasterous and frustrating for the customer.

And don't be surprised if those missing inventory items have been already put aside for the Sydney show.

Hmmmm, I now feel a little sad for reminiscing about that place. It was a fun and educational time for a young fella. At least I no longer dream about spare parts numbers.

[Sam]

Pac man,

Dont bother waiting for their reply - I'm about to order the jointer online, delivered straight to work for $10 more than than Sydney's sale price and I'll have it next week !

If I can get one that easily, surely they can organise something........

Sam

[Charleville]

If I can get one that easily, surely they can organise something........




That's the point of the thread. If you and I can do it, why cannot they? Their margins might be shaved a little on these spot transactions but at least we will go back to them again for more stuff.

Bob Ansett of Budget Rentacar fame has written in his book, "The Customer," that when he first started his business, if he did not have a car available for a customer, he would run around the corner and get an Avis car and re-rent it to his customer.


That is the sort of customer focus that Carba-Tec management needs to foster if they want to keep the business.


After my surprise at how quick and cheap it was to get a Kreg jig from Amazon, I rethought my situation in relation to the Kreg screws that I have not been able to get at Carba-Tec for several weeks. The outcome is that yesterday, I also ordered some Kreg screws from Amazon that will arrive in early August and yet still be cheaper, delivered to my door, than Carba-Tec's price in their shop. I did not think that that would be possible with heavy boxes of dumb screws. The last time that I asked Carba-Tec about these screws, the very helpful sales person looked up the stock situation on the computer and told me that they had "minus 50 boxes." I assume that means back-orders by customers.


Sheesh! I want to support the local guy but the local guy has to want to be supported.


.

[bsrlee]

Don't be too surprised if the goods you order from Amazon don't turn up for a while - weeks or months. They are notorious for offering goods they don't have and frequently can't get from the source, even when their web site says it is in stock & ready to ship.

The business plan seems to be to get you to order something on line, at which point Amazon can try to source it from the supplier. They hope that you will not look at other suppliers - who may actually have the goods on the shelf - because Amazon promote themselves as a one-stop supplier. In the case of many books, the publisher has not entered into any agreement to supply, and can't/won't give Amazon a huge discount, so Amazon then tell the customer the book is 'unavailable' from the publisher which causes many to assume the book is out of print, while it is available from another retailer & doing the publisher out of a legitimate sale (it has happened to me, but I keep looking).

You also have to look at the fine print - many non-media itrems are not actually being offered by Amazon, but are shipped direct by a third party, who can take their own sweet time about shipping or replying to emails - not Amazon's problem.

I also agree about 'parasite' distributors, who get an 'agency' but never seem to have any stock in the country - its all 'place a pre-paid order and we'll get some in a future shipment'. Unfortunately some (many?) overseas suppliers have some strange ideas about how to deal with overseas orders and insist on using a wholesale distributor rather than selling to a retailer.

[lesmeyer]

I have ordered from Amazon on a number of occasions, and have never had the problem described above. On some occasions the goods arrived up to a week ahead of estimated delivery, but also had a few days late on one occasion. Given the cost of the shipping, it has not been something to complain about. In fact some of the Amazon shipping (not the expensive express) has been faster than the "catch of the day" shipping from Melbourne to Perth. With some of the Amazon goods coming from central USA that is quite remarkable. I recently had a shipment that only took 5 days from Indianapolis - Alaska - Korea - Singapore - Perth. That was standard shipping costs.
Les

[L R P]

Hi All
For those who heard about Maxis!
It is inside the ct house, that company was set up by the son of the original owner.
They were to market DMT, LIDWIG CLAMPS, MAG SWITCH, INCRA, and KREG,

[Charleville]

Don't be too surprised if the goods you order from Amazon don't turn up for a while - weeks or months. They are notorious for offering goods they don't have and frequently can't get from the source, even when their web site says it is in stock & ready to ship.



According to the Amazon parcel tracking link, both of my orders from last week have been shipped and are scheduled to arrive in two weeks' time.



.

[Charleville]

Hi All
For those who heard about Maxis!
It is inside the ct house, that company was set up by the son of the original owner.
They were to market DMT, LIDWIG CLAMPS, MAG SWITCH, INCRA, and KREG,



They certainly have some good products there. In the past few months, I have bought a half dozen Lidwig clamps, a couple of Magjigs and a fair bit of Kreg gear and they are all excellent products.


However, the Lidwig clamps have been on Carba-Tec's runout specials list for a while, there are gaps on the shelves in the Magswitch stuff and we already know of the Kreg supply problems.


Something seems unwell with Maxis, methinks. :rolleyes:

[Master Splinter]

Maybe Maxis use the same stock control and ordering methodology and software as their parent company, if they sprang from Carba-Tech.

[Charleville]

Amazon lied to me!!!!


They told me that the Kreg product that I ordered on Tuesday last week, would be delivered to my door on 6 August.

They lied! It was delivered today. :D


That's 6 working days. Unless the Carba-Tecs lift their game on stock management and price, they have no hope. Will we miss them? Of course we will but someone will fill the void. That's the way that a market economy works.

I shall pull back from that hard line to reiterate that I want Carba-Tec to succeed but I have just paid AUD$35.27 for a product that I now have in my hands that was going to cost me $45 at Carbatec and not be available until at least mid August. How does that work again? :(


.

[SAISAY]

Amazon lied to me!!!!

I shall pull back from that hard line to reiterate that I want Carba-Tec to succeed but I have just paid AUD$35.27 for a product that I now have in my hands that was going to cost me $45 at Carbatec and not be available until at least mid August. How does that work again? :(
.

Yes, prices are lower from overseas but so are their wages.

Just remember, when you buy stuff from overseas, you can import $1.000 worth before paying import duty and no GST.
When suppliers do the same thing, they pay duty on everything plus GST.

You get your single items by airmail, they get theirs by shipping containers.
To do that they need a reasonably large order, not just one part.

If your part is faulty, forget about warranty.
They have to warrant the stuff they sell.

Then there is the mark-up margin. For some strange reason they need to cover overheads like staff wages, power, rent, telephone, insurance, etc. etc.

Pity they can't get all that for free.
That goes for every importer, not just CarbaTec.
Wolffie

[jimbur]

Will we miss them? Of course we will but someone will fill the void. That's the way that a market economy works.
I shall pull back from that hard line to reiterate that I want Carba-Tec to succeed but I have just paid AUD$35.27 for a product that I now have in my hands that was going to cost me $45 at Carbatec and not be available until at least mid August. How does that work again? :(.
Exactly so. The market is already filling the voids being left by understocking (for whatever reason).
Some posts have implied that many complaints are nothing but whining and that whining will become louder if Carbatec closes. The answer surely lies in the hands of the retailer. It's not a duty of a customer to subsidise a business. It's one thing to patronise a business by paying a little more for personal service but only if it supplies what we need. We have much the same with Ford at the moment - brand loyalty is fine if that brand supplies what the market wants.
Cheers,
JIm

[silentC]

You get your single items by airmail, they get theirs by shipping containers.

I dare say that most of the stuff people like us would buy from overseas is not coming into the country by container load. Chinese machinery for sure, but I doubt that Carba-tec or any other Australian retailer/importer is bringing stuff in from Lee Valley, for example, by the container load.

But as you say local retailers do have overheads which are a natural part of doing business. It hasn't been a big problem for them in the past because it hasn't been that simple for people to circumvent them. These days it's very easy to do.

I often read arguments along the lines of "if you don't use them you will lose them" in support of buying locally. I find it hard to believe that retail in Australia will completely disappear. There are businesses in operation today which survived the depression. I'm sure that it will change though and many of them will go out of business if they don't find new ways of doing business.

The thing is, if local retailers are relying on "use us or lose us" as a tactic, they are in a lot of trouble. If they're relying on the average shopper to "do the right thing" it's a lost cause. Look at how many people still smoke.

[petersemple]

You get your single items by airmail, they get theirs by shipping containers.
To do that they need a reasonably large order, not just one part.



But by doing that (buying in bulk), the price per item is considerably lower, not higher. Also bear in mind that people buying from overseas places in USA, UK or Canada (pretty common places to order from) are also buying from retailers who have similar overhead/markups and even wage costs as Australian retailers. The real issue at present is none of that - it is the exchange rate. The Aussie dollar currently favours buying from overseas retailers.

[Charleville]

Yes, prices are lower from overseas but so are their wages.

Just remember, when you buy stuff from overseas, you can import $1.000 worth before paying import duty and no GST.
When suppliers do the same thing, they pay duty on everything plus GST.

You get your single items by airmail, they get theirs by shipping containers.
To do that they need a reasonably large order, not just one part.

If your part is faulty, forget about warranty.
They have to warrant the stuff they sell.

Then there is the mark-up margin. For some strange reason they need to cover overheads like staff wages, power, rent, telephone, insurance, etc. etc.

Pity they can't get all that for free.
That goes for every importer, not just CarbaTec.
Wolffie



That is linear thinking. A number of factors now make such linear thinking about retailing as terminal as horse and buggy transport; interstate train travel as a norm and square sailing clippers as overseas transport.

Those factors are not related to the exchange rate albeit that helps from time to time; nor are they related to labour costs (Surely the wages paid to American store staff are not that low relative to ours - but more proof in the next paragraph or two), nor the lack of a GST. (Even with a GST, the Kreg product from Amazon would still be 16% cheaper than the very same product made in the same factory but bought from Carba-Tec, nor are there warranty issues unless the product is bought from a "grey market" (Google it) supplier which is not the situation here.

In fact, Aussie retailers can do the same thing as Amazon and do it well. Last month, I bought a CTEK 15A Marine battery charger from this crowd ... RV Technologies 4x4 and Camping Store, Your One Stop 4x4 and Camping Shop! (http://rvtek.com.au/store/index.php?...roducts_id=154)
I bought from them because they had the cheapest price in Australia and were an approved dealer.

So, how's this for delivery performance?!

I placed my order online and paid with Paypal at 1.45 am on a Friday morning. The product all neatly packaged up in its sealed box in a bubble wrap satchel was hand delivered to my door at 1.57 pm on the same afternoon. Given that no one would have been at their workplace at 1.45am, that represents just about a half day delivery performance for an online purchase.

Absolutely stunning delivery performance!!! Check out their website for testimonials by the hundreds. If these guys can do it because they have sorted out their processes to match the customer habits of this millennium, why cannot Carba-Tec? The same set of tools is available to Carba-Tec. ie online ordering plus very cheap transport of products.

So what happens if Carba-Tec and their ilk don't recognise that "the times are a rapidly changin' "?


Well consider, what Amazon is going to do to them.

Within the USA itself, Amazon is already moving to same day delivery...

Amazon same-day delivery: How the e-commerce giant will destroy local retail. - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/07/amazon_same_day_delivery_how_the_e_commerce_giant_will_destroy_local_retail_.html)



....."but they won't do that here!", I hear you say.


I would not bet on that either. They have already been shopping around for warehousing facilities in Australia ....

Amazon eyeing off local warehouse in Australia (http://www.smh.com.au/business/amazon-eyeing-off-local-warehouse-in-australia-20120417-1x5k5.html)


In fact, perhaps they already have them - or at least have a workaround to get cheap products quickly into Aussie customers' hands.

This is an extract from the Amazon invoice for my Kreg thingie. Notice that the delivery cost is just $7.85...

https://img.skitch.com/20120726-bx7b7fbnk8m4dx7tf8nbj42j4g.preview.jpg (https://skitch.com/charleville2/ee6nj/your-order-with-amazon.com-receipts-2012)Click for large view (https://skitch.com/charleville2/ee6nj/your-order-with-amazon.com-receipts-2012) - Uploaded with Skitch (http://skitch.com)


Now, have a look at the package that my Kreg thingie arrived in....

https://img.skitch.com/20120726-r5piq1jcx5spu9yksypesu93k9.preview.jpg (https://skitch.com/charleville2/ee6n5/package)Click for large view (https://skitch.com/charleville2/ee6n5/package) - Uploaded with Skitch (http://skitch.com)


Look closely and you will notice that it is not A US Mail package but an Aussie Post package and that it was posted from Tullamarine in Melbourne, undoubtedly by Aussie workers getting Aussie wages.


What this suggests to me is that Amazon are aggregating up their Aussie orders, perhaps on a weekly basis, to a pallet or two, flying them by cargo plane to Melbourne and then individually posting them from Melbourne.


So what should Carba-Tec do about this? Well they can either do the same or die. There will be no in-between, methinks.


The time for linear thinking about retailing has gone. Aussie retailers need to rethink their end to end sales and delivery processes. Can they do it? Of course they can!


By only if they don't think linearly.





.

[Big Shed]

In the main traditional retail businesses in Australia have totally missed the boat as far as online business is concerned. Look at Bunnings and compare their website with the Masters website. Try and search for a product on the Bunnings website, set aside an hour or so. Now look for that product on the Masters website.

Most of the sucessful online businesses in Australia are not traditional retailers but people that saw an opportunity early and based their business model on online selling.

Let's face it, the retailers may be Australian, but the majority of what they sell is imported, even the camera importers such as Canon have finally realised they can no longer treat Australian customers as milk cows. Apple still has to come to that realisation and there are a few others.

Look at one of our sponsors, Timberbits. Here is an example of an Australian business that didn't exist a few short years ago, now he sells in to the US and UK etc and has special deilvery rates for those countries, in fact his delivery cost to those countries is lower than his delivery cost in Australia.

His website is easy to use, he has good product at very good prices, in fact most of his pen related stuff you can't buy overseas at those prices.

Place an order today and nine times out of ten it is in your hands the next day, even in country Victoria.

So if Carbatec doesn't move with the times all they will do is create an opportunity for someone else, be that an established business, such as Amazon, or a startup we have never heard of before. There will always be a business that will recognise a demand exists for certain products and rise to the occasion to meet that demand.

[Acco]

:whs:

CWS is another that excels here as well, great service and prompt service :2tsup:

[Geekgirl]

Look closely and you will notice that it is not A US Mail package but an Aussie Post package and that it was posted from Tullamarine in Melbourne, undoubtedly by Aussie workers getting Aussie wages.


What this suggests to me is that Amazon are aggregating up their Aussie orders, perhaps on a weekly basis, to a pallet or two, flying them by cargo plane to Melbourne and then individually posting them from Melbourne.

.

Amazon are using a third party shipping company i-parcel – Home (http://www.i-parcel.com/) this company ship what ever Amazon (and maybe a couple of other companies) have to go to Au, they ship it all to a central warehouse in Tullamarine, then they reship using Aus post as it is the cheapest way to get stuff around Au.

Kat.

[SAISAY]

Amazon are using a third party shipping company i-parcel – Home (http://www.i-parcel.com/) this company ship what ever Amazon (and maybe a couple of other companies) have to go to Au, they ship it all to a central warehouse in Tullamarine, then they reship using Aus post as it is the cheapest way to get stuff around Au.

Kat.
Sounds strange.
I have received parcels from Amazon that were sent from many different countries, depending where they had it in stock at the moment.
Wolffie

[lesmeyer]

My last order from Amazon earlier this month was mailed in 3 shipments and 3 different shipping companies - Iparcel, DHL global mail and UPS. UPS was fastest followed by Iparcel and then DHL global mail which finally arrived via Aus Post as for what Charleville showed on his shipment.
Les

[Charleville]

Amazon lied to me!!!!


They told me that the Kreg product that I ordered on Tuesday last week, would be delivered to my door on 6 August.

They lied! It was delivered today. :D


That's 6 working days. Unless the Carba-Tecs lift their game on stock management and price, they have no hope. Will we miss them? Of course we will but someone will fill the void. That's the way that a market economy works.

I shall pull back from that hard line to reiterate that I want Carba-Tec to succeed but I have just paid AUD$35.27 for a product that I now have in my hands that was going to cost me $45 at Carbatec and not be available until at least mid August. How does that work again? :(
.



Amazon lied to me again!


They said that the second order that I made after the above one would arrive next week but they lied. It arrived today.

This time the order was most made up of a pack of 500 Kreg screws which I would have thought was getting a bit heavy to be sending by airmail but once again, the screws arrived well ahead of any promises by Carba-tec and at a cheaper price.

The real threat to Carba-Tec becomes that now that I have experienced just how good Amazon is at supplying the Kreg products in both speed and price terms, I probably won't even bother looking for such at Carba-Tec; I shall just log into the Amazon website.

[bsrlee]

I currently have an order with Amazon for books, all listed on their web site as currently in stock & shipping immediately.

I placed the order on 30th June and now that they have my order, Amazon show that they won't be shipping any of it before the 7th August.

[noty]

Quote "My last order from Amazon earlier this month was mailed in 3 shipments and 3 different shipping companies - Iparcel, DHL global mail and UPS. UPS was fastest followed by Iparcel and then DHL global mail which finally arrived via Aus Post as for what Charleville showed on his shipment.
Les"

Flexability - maybe Amazon is continually looking around for the fastest, cheapest carrier and using them.
One thing worries me with all this - warranty. After 3 months of use I had to return a 10HB saw to Carbatec Bris - machining issue. After 20 minutes explaining etc I was given a full refund. There was some argy bargy of course but they came good. It was very important to be able to explain the situation with this saw to a person who represented the company. I now have a H&F ST-12D from another supplier of this heavier gear. If these companies go, what replaces them. I agree that they do need to keep up but the warranty issue is important. I don't know what the percentages are but income from the smaller stock would help keep the ship afloat. If enough people complain to the company concerned hopefully they will act.
Tony.

[silentC]

One thing worries me with all this - warranty
Only a minor thing but I bought a couple of books from Amazon a few years ago. When they arrived, I discovered one of them was water damaged. I contacted Amazon and they sent me another copy no questions asked. I also had an issue with something I bought from Lee Valley and they sent me a new bit for it free of charge.

Just a couple of examples where after-sales service has been exemplary from online retailers.

[noty]

Hello again
what if Amazon and Carbatec etc worked together!!
Without those Australian suppliers doing the many years of building/supplying a market Amazon etc would not have one.
Tony.

[Charleville]

Hello again
what if Amazon and Carbatec etc worked together!!
Without those Australian suppliers doing the many years of building/supplying a market Amazon etc would not have one.



That is a brilliant idea and certainly a change from the linear thinking that plagues the bricks and mortar retailers in this country.


I am not sure that I entirely agree with your last sentence as a necessity going forward into the future, though. Most of the skills and techniques that I have learned over the past three or four years since getting into woodwork have been learned from Youtubes and other online video lectures, usually from USA sources. It is only a minor transition from that into buying the products online.


The best Aussie sources for information for me have been these forums and the demos to be seen at the woodworking shows. However most of the latter can be replaced with online videos, which could in the future be live and interactive. ie a Roger Gifkins could demo his jigs online at say, 10 am every day and handle customer enquiries there and then. (Yes - I know that he is out of that business. This is just an example as a lot of people would be familiar with his regular show appearances in the past.)

Attending a woodworking show is not cheap, usually. It is very quick for the average punter to spend $40 - $50 on entry ticket, parking and lunch/'refreshments at these shows. By comparison, I bought a bandsaw online a few years ago and it cost just $60 to have it transported from Sydney to Brisbane.

So even bulkier items are buyable online without too much delivery cost pain.

[lesmeyer]

Many companies already sell through Amazon. Rockler for example. The bigger issue here is whether Aus companies would have the online systems to handle up to the second on-line stock control. Many companies here ( I would rather not name them) I have contacted in the past about a product on their website before ordering on-line, only to be told they have no stock and have no clue as to when it will be available again. LV and Rockler for example have brilliant systems in place and even when no stock is available, provide an estimated date of when it is available again. My experience with LV is that it usually becomes available sooner than the expected date. I do not have a lot of experience with Rockler (only 2 orders some time ago) due to their high shipping costs. But when it comes to LV, no company comes even close. (I know there are some in Aus that are very good - reports on this forum). My experience with LV can only be described as exceptional. Amazon is pretty good for what can be ordered due to limitations. Expect these limitations to grow due to the gloating on this forum. Soon Kreg will not allow shipments to Aus from Amazon. I have always kept this information low key to protect my own interests of getting good prices without the local companies being aware of it. I have shared this info privately with a number of forumites (I am not selfish), but now the cat is out of the bag. We have shot ourselves in the foot.
Les :o

[lesmeyer]

At this point I would also like to add that I am a very big supporter of Carbatec. My local Carbatec in Perth has always given me excellent service and they still do. That is why I have purchased many thousands of dollars worth machinery from them. They sell the very finest Chinese made woodworking machines known to man. I would not dream of purchasing machinery on-line. But for smaller non power items, when bargains are to be had, I will be there.
Les

[jimbur]

Expect these limitations to grow due to the gloating on this forum. Soon Kreg will not allow shipments to Aus from Amazon. I have always kept this information low key to protect my own interests of getting good prices without the local companies being aware of it. I have shared this info privately with a number of forumites (I am not selfish), but now the cat is out of the bag. We have shot ourselves in the foot.
Les :o
So you believe hardware and related consumables will be going the way of armaments - not to be sold without an end-user certificate. :o
Cheers,
Jim

[petersemple]

So you believe hardware and related consumables will be going the way of armaments - not to be sold without an end-user certificate. :o
Cheers,
Jim

I was under the impression that there were already plenty of distributers that will threaten to remove their products from any retailer that posts them overseas. If Australian retailers/distributers complain too loudly to the powers up the chain, then a similar thing could potentially happen.

[Charleville]

now the cat is out of the bag. We have shot ourselves in the foot.




You don't reckon that Amazon's leverage with Kreg and others is going to be bigger than any Aussie retailer, especially once they establish a beach-head here with a warehouse?


I reckon that you fear Aussie retailer protectionism too much, Les. Global online sales is now a fact of life. Either Amazon sells direct to us or alternatively we will use one of the US based companies who will purchase on our behalf and ship the products here, still cheaper and quicker than the local retailer may choose to do. This all has the inevitability of gravity.


What we actually want is for retailers like Carba-Tec to know what they are up against and to react in a way that moves them into a viable economic alternative. If they choose to play the protectionist game, they will only be delaying the inevitable.


.

[silentC]

It is already happening in some sectors:


AUSTRALIAN consumers will be forced to pay substantially more for their favourite fashion brands as a growing number of local importers reach agreements with international brands to stop selling their clothes to Australians on overseas websites or to lift their web prices.

Read more: Importers close door on overseas online stores (http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/shopping/importers-close-door-on-overseas-online-stores-20120511-1yg3r.html#ixzz22Sd9soWw)

[jimbur]

There are a number of ways that this could go, not all of them mutually exclusive. It is possible that Australian importers have overestimated their clout compared with large entities such as Amazon. Restriction of trade might be seen as unlawful in some jurisdictions. As suggested before there already are ways to circumvent attempts to restrict Australians buying online. It is also possible that other entities will see an opening and fill the gaps - especially with products made in China.
Another point is that consumers may become off at such machinations and boycott companies doing it.
However, the point of this thread was not to destroy local businesses but, as Charleville said, to alert them to what is seen by many as unsatisfactory service. The answer is in their hands.
Cheers,
Jim

[Charleville]

It is already happening in some sectors:



My shopaholic wife would laugh at that because of what she experiences in the bricks and mortar retailers now.

Admittedly, as a lady in her sixties, she is not brand shopping but just looking for quality garments. However, her experiences are that most clothing retailers are discounting so heavily just to survive these days that every week, she comes home with some purchase that she cannot believe how cheap it is.

What is happening is that a garment will show a list price with a sticker on it with a huge discount. What blows her away time after time is that when she takes her garments through the checkouts, another unbelievable discount is then applied. So much so that this week, she reckoned that the nine buttons on the jumper that she bought would cost her more to buy at, say, Spotlight, than the whole garment. It was a very nice jumper also.


Maybe they can play hardball with brand name garments but those too will be dragged down in price because consumers will not cop too big a price difference just for a name.

[Charleville]

the point of this thread was not to destroy local businesses but, as Charleville said, to alert them to what is seen by many as unsatisfactory service. The answer is in their hands.




Exactly! They have to abandon linear thinking such as by employing protectionist policies. If Amazon has a base in Australia, then it might have some fair claims under trade practice legislation to negate restrictive trade practices by Aussie retailers.



.

[lesmeyer]

You don't reckon that Amazon's leverage with Kreg and others is going to be bigger than any Aussie retailer, especially once they establish a beach-head here with a warehouse? ........
.....
....
I reckon that you fear Aussie retailer protectionism too much, Les.
.
This has already happened with Incra. A few months back, most Incra products were available for direct shipping to OZ. Now only a few items are available and I reckon soon this will also be stopped.

Les

[silentC]

Clothing is a somewhat special case because of the seasonal nature of the styles. My wife works in a golf pro shop and last season's gear can hardly be given away. The mark up is something like 300-400% on many items because they need to make enough profit on initial sales to cover the losses on the remaining stock that will be sold below cost.

However it is an example of a lobby group getting some action from suppliers. I think it's a reasonable thing for them to ask. They are recognised suppliers of the product in this country and they have a negotiated agreement with the supplier. By allowing the stock to be available online, the supplier is undermining that agreement.

Where the problem will arise is that it only increases the demand for fake brand stuff from China. That costs a lot of these companies millions.

[Geekgirl]

Hi all,

I know that one supplier can not stop everything..... sadly :(

I have been told that the best finish for wood products for food (eg goblets and egg cups etc) is Rustin's Plastic Coating. I look on their website, they have two suppliers in Perth metro area "Timbercon and Carba-tec" Both do not list the product on their website, when I phone the person answering the phone says I do not know of that product :(

I went to the Carba-Tec store in Balcatta, as I need some bench dog equipment and a marking knife. I look over the show room and could only find the marking knife.I could not see any of the bench dog stuff I wanted on the shelves. I found a store assistant, asked for the various stuff I needed. The person was quite rude, he said "It was the Wood show on the weekend we are still unpacking.... We do not know where anything is" I could not find any of the bench dog stuff :( I found the Veritas area, but their was not much stock (I do not know where they were as they were not at the show lol)

I shudder everytime I have to go to Carba-Tec, the staff seem rude, they never seem to have any stock of what I want :( I have been to the shop 3 times now, I have only once come out with any of what I went in for.

I have asked my supplier to stock the Rustin's stuff (they probably will :) ) to start off with I can order a small amount and get it shipped by road :)

Unfortunately Carba-Tec are the only place I can get the cheap plastic dogs :( (I am now going to turn my own wooden version (square head with a round peg :) (I can chamfer the head 2 degrees to force the work down. I may have to buy the Veritas stuff online, which is not as cheap as Carba-Tec :(

Kat. :(

[Big Shed]

Geekgirl, I moved your post here as we don't really need 2 threads on the same subject running side by side:(

I'm not sure there is a lot more to say on this subject anyway.:no:

[Geekgirl]

Geekgirl, I moved your post here as we don't really need 2 threads on the same subject running side by side:(

I'm not sure there is a lot more to say on this subject anyway.:no:

Thanks, I thought I was going mad lol

The point I was making is that some importers based over east are not realising that the resellers are not doing the products justice. I feel some of the importers are thinking that people are not interested in the products, which is not the case, we can not access the products we want :(

Sigh sometimes I hate living in Perth, if I was over east I could access multiple suppliers for one product (esp in Sydney it seems)

Kat.

[Big Shed]

Sigh sometimes I hate living in Perth, if I was over east I could access multiple suppliers for one product (esp in Sydney it seems)

Kat.

Well Kat, you may have to emigrate then:)

Lived in Adelaide for 35 years and WA was part of my territory, always amused me the way Sandgropers referred to the "wise men from the East", and believe it or not that included SA!

In their view a totally different country started at the WA/SA border, hasn't changed much has it?:no:

[SAISAY]

Sigh sometimes I hate living in Perth, if I was over east I could access multiple suppliers for one product (esp in Sydney it seems)

Kat.

Try living in FNQ :oo:

We have Bunnies in Cairns (just over 2 hours away), Cairns Hardware in Cairns and Innisfail (just over 1 hour away) and M10 in Tully (about 1/2 hour away).

Neither of them carry any decent woodworking stuff at all, just power tools.

Everything has be bought unseen and one has to get to know the sales people by phone. There is no other way.

I am lucky, I get on well with both CarbaTec and H&F people in Brissy, they have got to know what I want and go out of their way to get it for me.

Cheers
Wolffie

[Geekgirl]

Well Kat, you may have to emigrate then:)

Lived in Adelaide for 35 years and WA was part of my territory, always amused me the way Sandgropers referred to the "wise men from the East", and believe it or not that included SA!

In their view a totally different country started at the WA/SA border, hasn't changed much has it?:no:

All my family lives close, plus being self employed all my customers are here (I work direct to a few customers, one for just under 20 years, left apprenticeship with them then subcontracted to them). I do like the area (although colder would be nice is Tassie supplied well ?? ;)

It does suck that they think this way, I now know why a lot of the WA mines buy things in from over east :(

The people in WA are a great bunch and I do love the attitude around the place :)

Kat.

[jimbur]

As the advert on this forum says, "Australia's largest range of tools for wood".
Cheers,
Jim