tas oak rocking cradle finishing advice please!

[lsd4me07]

hi all, have spent months and $$ building a rocking baby cradle out of tasmaninan oak with a cedar roof, in anticipation of our first child now this is my second major woodworking project so am definately a novice when it comes to finishing techniques i have studied these forums for any info have got some great advice from them, but i have spent to much time on this project to ruin it with a dodgy finish! the misus wants me to stain it walnut to match the rest of the nursery furniture, will there end up being a color difference between the different woods? it has turned treadle bars which i think will be a bit of a hassle to stain once attached, should i stain them before i attach them? have never stained anything! i have sanded it to 180grit. so my question is what is the best way to acheive a beautiful lasting finish? any help will be greatly appreciated!!!!

picture of the cradle i am building!
http://www.shopsmithhandson.com/archives/july_aug_05/html/major_project.htm

[rhancock]

Here's a link to my hall table (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/hall-table-wip-128131/) in tas oak which I stained with Van Dyke Crystals to get a walnut type colour, and then finished with UBeaut's Hard Shellac.

[lsd4me07]

wow that came up nice, have sort of thought about the shellac route but i'm a bit scared of the unknown! i spose i need more study on the subject, thanks for that

[rhancock]

Applying the shellac was really easy. The hardest part was keeping the dust off, but since it dries quickly, that was less difficult than it would be with slower drying finishes.

My only reservation with shellac is durability, but I think a cradle would not get too much wear, so it should be ok. UBeaut's Hard Shellac is supposed to be harder than normal shellac.

I don't think you should be scared of the unknown. If you buy the Polisher's Handbook, it'll go on about rubbers, and French polishing, which is all fine, but you can also just brush or wipe Hard Shellac on as you would any other finish and it looks great - that's all I did.

[rhancock]

By the way if you want to try Van Dyke Crystals, I have a life time's supply.

[old pete]

Hi ISd4,

The image in the post looks very handsome. If you have achieved that standard of joinery go the whole hog and make a No. 1 job of it. Here's what I would do.

Sand through 240, 280 to 320 grit.
Apply by spray a thin coat of blond shellac and de-nib after 24hrs.
Follow by a spray coat of your chosen stain and de-nib again if necessary.
Finish with two coats of pre-catalysed lacquer at 24 hr intervals with de-nib between coats if necessary.

The polishing process sounds like a lot of work but each step is about 15minutes or less for a little job like that cradle.

If you want a completely smooth finish then you can use one of the two pack systems that has an initial filler coat as part of the process that is put on top of the shellac and stain that pretty well completely fills the grain. That finish is a bit glassy for my taste but some like it that way.

If you contact one of the Brisbane Woodcraft Guilds you will likely find someone willing to polish it for you for a couple of bottles of wine plus materials.

I've made a few cradles over the years. Pity you only get about three months use out of them.

God Luck with it.

[ian]

hi all, have spent months and $$ building a rocking baby cradle out of tasmaninan oak with a cedar roof, in anticipation of our first child now this is my second major woodworking project so am definately a novice when it comes to finishing techniques i have studied these forums for any info have got some great advice from them, but i have spent to much time on this project to ruin it with a dodgy finish! the misus wants me to stain it walnut to match the rest of the nursery furniture, will there end up being a color difference between the different woods? it has turned treadle bars which i think will be a bit of a hassle to stain once attached, should i stain them before i attach them? have never stained anything! i have sanded it to 180grit. so my question is what is the best way to acheive a beautiful lasting finish? any help will be greatly appreciated!!!!

picture of the cradle i am building!
The Heirloom Cradle (http://www.shopsmithhandson.com/archives/july_aug_05/html/major_project.htm)
unfortunately, it will be almost impossible to stain the Tassie Oak to match the rest of the nursery furniture, especially as you will be pressured to achieve the colour match before applying the rest of the finish
far better to accept that the cradle will end up a different colour and achieve the best finish you can
apply any stain after using a sealer coat of dewaxed blond shellac
make sure there is no glue residue on the project before applying the stain

[lsd4me07]

thanks for that info mate, really appreciate it, i like to think the cradle currently resembles the one in that picture and am keen to make it a "no 1 job" hence why i'm worried about the finishing process! I like the idea of spraying the finish on cause i was worried about getting an uneven colour etc. and i have access to a compressor and spray gun is there anything i should know about the spraying process? excuse my lack of knowlegde on these things but i have a few questions regarding the technique you mentioned,
i assume the initial light coat of shellac is to fill the grain?
when you say de-nib just sand the sheen off the finish with 1200 sandpaper?
when you spray the stain on do you just rub it off with a rag after a couple of minutes?
sorry i forgot to mention that the roof is cedar will i need to treat the cedar roof any differently?

sorry about the all the questions really interested in learning more about the fiishing process, thanks for all the help
thanks for the offer of the crystals too rhancock

[ian]

thanks for that info mate, really appreciate it, i like to think the cradle currently resembles the one in that picture and am keen to make it a "no 1 job" hence why i'm worried about the finishing process! I like the idea of spraying the finish on cause i was worried about getting an uneven colour etc. and i have access to a compressor and spray gun is there anything i should know about the spraying process? spraying will not help you get an even colour
with the right spraying technique and material you will be able to get an even apperance to the finish and fill the grain -- evening out the colour takes a lot of experience and skill to get a good colour match and to only spray the tint where it's needed
wiped or brushed on finishes are maybe a little more time consuming to apply, but offer far less scope for things to go horribly wrong

excuse my lack of knowlegde on these things but i have a few questions regarding the technique you mentioned,
i assume the initial light coat of shellac is to fill the grain?NO
the initial coat of shellac (and it's usually a dilluted coat) is to even out the absorption of the stain by the underlying timber
if you want to fill the grain, you will need to use many coats of clear finish or a grain filler the appropriate colour AFTER you do your staining

when you say de-nib just sand the sheen off the finish with 1200 sandpaper?I'd suggest 400 paper

when you spray the stain on do you just rub it off with a rag after a couple of minutes?the only stain I've used was petroleum based and wiped on with a rag, with the excess wiped off immediately

sorry i forgot to mention that the roof is cedar will i need to treat the cedar roof any differently?if your aim is a consistent colour on the whole cradle, you will almost certainly need to use a different colour stain on the cedar roof

[ian]

further
although this application is for decking
Clear and Translucent Stains for Exterior Surfaces | Cabot (http://www.cabotstain.com/colors-and-finishes/families/Clears-and-Translucents-Colors.html)
it will give you an idea of how staining changes the colour

[lsd4me07]

further
although this application is for decking
Clear and Translucent Stains for Exterior Surfaces | Cabot (http://www.cabotstain.com/colors-and-finishes/families/Clears-and-Translucents-Colors.html)
it will give you an idea of how staining changes the colour

thanks for those answers, so it looks like i'll have a two tone cradle then, not necessarily a bad thing i spose may look alright? so my thinking based on all the information i've recieved so far will be to,
-finish sand to 320grit
-unsure if i need to apply a sealer of some sort to the cedar roof as it seems alot more porous then the tassie oak?
-spray a diluted light coat of blonde shellac
-de-nib with 400grit
-apply a wipe on or brush on stain wipe excess off
-de-nib with 400 grit
- 2 coats laquer? do you just buy it in a spray can? what is the general opinion on clear coats? is laquer the way to go?
thanks again!!

[ian]

you can have a cradle that is all, or very close too, the same colour -- you will just have to stain the cedar with a different colour to what you use on the Tassie Oak
also, there should be no need to denib the stain

Also, if you do decide to spray the shellac, be very careful, the solvent (ethanol) is poisonous and, under the right condiutions, explosive
oh, and the vapour can put you over the 0.05 limit
I encourage you to brush or wipe on the shellac sealer coat -- it's main purpose is to even out the rate at which the stain is absorbed by the wood

for top coats, I'd be inclined towards shellac -- blond or orange -- once the solvent has evaporated, it's essentially harmless

lastly, practice the whole finish routine (keeping notes) on some off cuts till you are satisfied with the colour you get

[lsd4me07]

ok have decided to give shellac a go, is there a specific mix i should use when mixing the shellac for the initial sealer coat? probably just brush that on? and what about the mix for final finishing? i've watched some youtube clips of people rubbing on shellac with a peice of cheese cloth is this the correct technique for final finishing? whats the difference between blonde and orange shellac? probably will purchase the shellac from u beaut, went to bunnings today they had some shellac flakes but didn't specify dewaxed etc.
once again i aplogise for all the questions!!!!!!

[ian]

ok have decided to give shellac a go, is there a specific mix i should use when mixing the shellac for the initial sealer coat? probably just brush that on? and what about the mix for final finishing? i've watched some youtube clips of people rubbing on shellac with a peice of cheese cloth is this the correct technique for final finishing? whats the difference between blonde and orange shellac? probably will purchase the shellac from u beaut, went to bunnings today they had some shellac flakes but didn't specify dewaxed etc.
once again i aplogise for all the questions!!!!!!easiest is to buy it pre-mixed
U Beaut does it this way
distributors in Brisbane are: http://www.ubeaut.com.au/distribs.htm just scroll down to QLD

[lsd4me07]

well i've ordered some u-beaut hard shellac and this arvo managed to get my desired colour of stain using feast and watsons prooftint stains however i noticed that this particular stain is metho based same as the mentioned shellac so now i'm wondering if i've made a mistake by combining 2 metho based products and will there be any problems with it?

[lsd4me07]

ok so i tested the shellac and stain combo with no negative results but now i'm wondering what the correct mix of shellac and metho is for the sealer coat i tried 4 parts metho to 1 part shellac and the top coats i went 1 to 1 is this the norm?

[old pete]

Hi ISD 4 Lots of good advice from Ian there. I don't think you will have a compatibility problem with your stain and your finish polish so long as you give the stain plenty of time 24 hr min. to dry. As always try it first on a sample.

If you are going for a hard shellac finish then I'd just go for application with a good quality brush. The mix level with thinners is extremely forgiving as long as you don't put it on to thick or too concentrated. If your brew is sub optimally thin then you just need to do more coats the outcome will not suffer. I wouldn't go the french polishing route that's going to be pretty tricky with that cradle for a beginner. Go for a brushable 50/50 alcohol/ shellac mix to start. See how you go after say three coats.Watch for and correct runs when the polish is wet or clean off with alcohol and repolish that section.That hard shellac from U Beaut is a top product although a bit shiny as a finish for my personal taste.

As always don't learn on the final furniture piece learn on scrap of the same materials.

Old Pete

Good polishing Old Pete



well i've ordered some u-beaut hard shellac and this arvo managed to get my desired colour of stain using feast and watsons prooftint stains however i noticed that this particular stain is metho based same as the mentioned shellac so now i'm wondering if i've made a mistake by combining 2 metho based products and will there be any problems with it?

[ian]

well i've ordered some u-beaut hard shellac and this arvo managed to get my desired colour of stain using feast and watsons prooftint stains however i noticed that this particular stain is metho based same as the mentioned shellac so now i'm wondering if i've made a mistake by combining 2 metho based products and will there be any problems with it?just checking back to see how the cradle finishing ios going