More Computer Probs.

[Peter R]

I have had a problem, on several occasions, where at around 1.30am to 2.30 am a power function takes place which I can only blame on the Off Peak FIR in the meter box.
What happens is that the clocks go off, as does the VCR which have to be re-programed and the computer comes on.
My computer usually has a 10 sec button hold before the power switches off but when the problem occurs it will switch off immediatley.
I will go to Country Energy, however I would like some amunition with me otherwise they will just say that it is not their fault.
There has been past problems with the FIR's not activating, resulting in cold water, but again CE said that it was an intermittent fault and was not a problem (for them, I guess).
Has anyone else had this problem, or does anyone know what it might be.
I was an elec tech but on the supply side of things and had nothing to do with electronics.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon5.gif

Peter R.
Just try and be serious and nice, hey Fellas!?http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[outback]

Perhaps if we all get behind this we can make a change, after all, we all say things need changing, but nuthin' happens. ;)

[Sturdee]

I have had a problem, on several occasions, where at around 1.30am to 2.30 am a power function takes place which I can only blame on the Off Peak FIR in the meter box.
What happens is that the clocks go off, as does the VCR which have to be re-programed and the computer comes on.

Just try and be serious and nice, hey Fellas!?

Peter,

No need to ask us to be serious. A serious question deserves a serious answer however a silly question ....................... :D :D :D

To ascertain if it is the Off Peak FIR in the meter box that is causing the problem I would break the seals, if any, and set the time to a different time and record what happens. Do it for a number of times and you will know if it is the problem.

Serious enough I hope. :p


Peter.

[Peter R]

Peter,

No need to ask us to be serious. A serious question deserves a serious answer however a silly question ....................... :D :D :D

To ascertain if it is the Off Peak FIR in the meter box that is causing the problem I would break the seals, if any, and set the time to a different time and record what happens. Do it for a number of times and you will know if it is the problem.

Serious enough I hope. :p


Peter.
Highly illegal in NSW and also not an answer. The FIR that are now in use are simply a frequency relay, the time that the relay is activated is up to the supplier, and it differs within a certain time zone.

In so far as not having to ask you people to be serious, have a look at Outback's rot.
Peter R.

[ozwinner]

We're always serious.!!

Squizz, just what was that recipe for pancakes again??

Al :confused:

[Sturdee]

The FIR that are now in use are simply a frequency relay, the time that the relay is activated is up to the supplier, and it differs within a certain time zone.



I thought the FIR was similar to the time clock that regulates our of peak supply.

BTW although illegal I removed the seal about 30 years ago and no meter reader, SEC and now private inspector that have looked at the board ever did anything about it. They can't be too worried about it. :D


Peter.

[ozwinner]

BTW although illegal I removed the seal about 30 years ago
Peter.
I hope you found a nice pond or pool for the poor thing.

Al :D

[jow104]

Ozwinner seals need to go into salt water. That was very cruel of you to suggest freshwater. :D :D :D

[CHJ]

I have had a problem, on several occasions, where at around 1.30am to 2.30 am a power function takes place which I can only blame on the Off Peak FIR in the meter box.
What happens is that the clocks go off, as does the VCR which have to be re-programed and the computer comes on.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon5.gif
Peter R.
Does this power break happen to any of your neighbours?

I ask this because the problem may be down the line with supply route switching for maintenanace or load sharing/shedding.

If it is only your property then it can only be a malfunction of your switching unit/s.

A problem with the initiation signal (out of spec.) from the power company would affect others dependant on their units sensitivity, a more difficult thing to pin down.

Hope this helps.
Chas

[Peter R]

Does this power break happen to any of your neighbours?

I ask this because the problem may be down the line with supply route switching for maintenanace or load sharing/shedding.

If it is only your property then it can only be a malfunction of your switching unit/s.

A problem with the initiation signal (out of spec.) from the power company would affect others dependant on their units sensitivity, a more difficult thing to pin down.

Hope this helps.
Chas
A frequency Injection meter replaced the time clocks in NSW about 20 years ago. They are a unit that recieves a different frequency to the 50cps of the normal electricity supply. The supplier, in this case, Country Energy decide when they send the signal to operate the FIRs for Off Peak Supply.
I know what you are getting at, and I don't have a difinitive answer, and no, others in these 6 townhouses or units do not have a problem.
CE can control blocks of FIRs and mine may be in a seperate block to the other 5, possible as the FIRs are not necessarily in sequencial order when installed.
The strange thing is that the computer comes on after being securely swtiched off - yes I could solve the problem by disconnecting at the wall - the other thing is the fact that it switches off immediately after one of these faliures/functions or whatever they are when normally it takes a ten second hold before it switches off.
The VCR and clocks going into outage mode indicates that a power faliure has occured.
Sturdee: After several cases of electric shock by consumers fiddling with meter boxes the NSW Electricity Authority decided that the local supply Authorities (then) would be liable for injury incurred from interference with their equipment if the equipment was easily accessable. The local suppliers then went about upgrading all the meter boxes in its area, and that is continued with the advent of CE.
In NSW, if a meter box has been tampered with (Seals broken) fire insurance can be refused.

Peter R.

[outback]

1. What do you mean rot?
2. I thought a FIR was either a tree or a baby hare.
3. Because you live in a townhouse the power you get is only the old stale stuff everyone else is finished with, this would explain why your PC, with good taste keeps chucking a wobbly.
4. What do you mean rot?
5. I like pancakes with maple syrup, yummm

[Peter R]

1. What do you mean rot?
2. I thought a FIR was either a tree or a baby hare.
3. Because you live in a townhouse the power you get is only the old stale stuff everyone else is finished with, this would explain why your PC, with good taste keeps chucking a wobbly.
4. What do you mean rot?
5. I like pancakes with maple syrup, yummm
If I had told you an FIR was a frequency Injection Meter you would have thought it was something to hang on the head of the bed.

Peter R.

[CHJ]

I don't have a difinitive answer, and no, others in these 6 townhouses or units do not have a problem. CE can control blocks of FIRs and mine may be in a seperate block to the other 5, possible as the FIRs are not necessarily in sequencial order when installed.
Peter R.Even if your nieghbours FIR are set for differing times (load spread/switch spike reduction) they should see similar results to you if it was a "trigger" signal problem.


The strange thing is that the computer comes on after being securely swtiched off - yes I could solve the problem by disconnecting at the wall - the other thing is the fact that it switches off immediately after one of these faliures/functions or whatever they are when normally it takes a ten second hold before it switches off.
Peter R.Computer switch off is the difference between removal of power and delayed electronic power down of active supply to ensure any memory held information is written from the cache to the hard disk.

Automatic start up can occure for several reasons.

1. Most likely if you are running Windows is the default startup settings.
(Iv'e only got access to XP here so this is the route you need other versions such as 98se or ME will have similar control for ATX power supplies.)

Go to: Control Panel >System >Advanced >Startup and recovery >System failure box, untick Automatically restart.

If this does not cure restart, then:
2. do you have a network card fitted or a network function on your motherboard? if so dissable "Wake on Lan" which might be activating computer.
3. do you have a modem (stand alone of or internal) with fax or answerphone capability? this may be starting machine.

Cheers
Chas

[Peter R]

Even if your nieghbours FIR are set for differing times (load spread/switch spike reduction) they should see similar results to you if it was a "trigger" signal problem.

Computer switch off is the difference between removal of power and delayed electronic power down of active supply to ensure any memory held information is written from the cache to the hard disk.

Automatic start up can occure for several reasons.

1. Most likely if you are running Windows is the default startup settings.
(Iv'e only got access to XP here so this is the route you need other versions such as 98se or ME will have similar control for ATX power supplies.)

Go to: Control Panel >System >Advanced >Startup and recovery >System failure box, untick Automatically restart.

If this does not cure restart, then:
2. do you have a network card fitted or a network function on your motherboard? if so dissable "Wake on Lan" which might be activating computer.
3. do you have a modem (stand alone of or internal) with fax or answerphone capability? this may be starting machine.

Cheers
Chas
I am still on the trail. YOur info has been the most comprehensive to date, am learning again. I didn't know why there was a delay on the switch off.
Q1. Have Windows 98, does not have the facility you suggested.
Q2. Have external modem with Winfax Pro on the computer.

The other curiosity is the fact that the clocks go off at the same time.
I spole to Country Energy and they suggested that there may be an outage problem and will look into it. They are very twitchy when you mention that a computer or other device is being disturbed.

Peter R.

[CHJ]

Q1. Have Windows 98, does not have the facility you suggested.
I will check out 98 settings when I return Home (at least a week away),I have 98/98se on one of my machines.

Main problem there is that there are several flavours of options dependant upon which type of power supply/motherboard is fitted to your machine.



The other curiosity is the fact that the clocks go off at the same time.
Peter R.
This is confirmation that the power supply is broken completly for longer than any power backup fitted to equipment such as internal batteries or capacitors can support. I.E. a significant break.

Chas

[bsrlee]

Reason they go 'all twitchy' when you mention 'computer' is that they are liable for any damage they cause due to poor/fault electrical supply. Ditto any other household goods damaged, but computers going belly up may have associated 'buisness losses' if it screws the hard drive.

If they have the system set up to turn on different users in blocks, you may be 'lucky' enough to have been assigned to a block with some huge user, like the local water pumping station, which causes a temporary brown/blackout. Oh. and I beleive it is also illegal to supply less than 240 volts to a metered customer - this was an old trick by some Sydney suppliers before they all got taken out a few years ago - they supplied >180 volts in some areas, which pushed apparent usage up, hence more profit.

If you are worried about the P.C., and/or use it for work, get a 'UPS' - Uninteruptable Power Supply - this will give you, say, 30 seconds of panic while everything crashes in slow motion, but they are the big brother of 'surge busters' and you'll only loose a bit or work instead of everything.

[Peter R]

. Oh. and I beleive it is also illegal to supply less than 240 volts to a metered customer - this was an old trick by some Sydney suppliers before they all got taken out a few years ago - they supplied >180 volts in some areas, which pushed apparent usage up, hence more profit. (bsrlee)

The rule on that is actually must not supply at less than - 4% and no more than +6% of rated supply be it 240V or 415V.

If you put a voltmeter into your power points and watch it at around 6 in the evening it will almost surely will drop below 240V. If the loading gets too heavy it will be automatically boosted which may cause a spike. This is difficult for the suppliers to control because it is all about maximun demand and that is variable.

180V volts on a 240v motor would cause great damage especially under load.

I can't follow the more usage bit. All that would happen is that motors and appliances would work at low voltage. the wiring in the motors and appliance would not become bigger and draw more current. But I guess you might be right in so far as a toaster would have to be on longer to toast as would a jug to boil, but even then the voltage drop would drop the current, which is what you are charged for, not the voltage.
More comment??

Peter R.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[CHJ]

. All that would happen is that motors and appliances would work at low voltage. the wiring in the motors and appliance would not become bigger and draw more current.
Peter R.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif An increase in current and hence heat on Motors if the back EMF is reduced because of lower torque reducing rotor speed may not be desireable for long periods.


.
But I guess you might be right in so far as a toaster would have to be on longer to toast as would a jug to boil, but even then the voltage drop would drop the current, which is what you are charged for, not the voltage.
More comment??

Peter R.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifAs far as I am aware all AC power supplies are monitored by wattmeters.
So charge is based on Voltage X Amperage so units charged should remain the same regardless of voltage.
They are however calibrated assuming a Power Factor is met (something like 98%) if this power factor goes astray because of unballanced loads then you could be charged for AC power that is not providing useable energy.
Power Factor correction is usually built into induction motors and the like in the form of a large capacitor (to compensate for the winding induction) in order not to skew the supply. Any appliance with a large capactive load will have a compensating choke (inductor) fitted.

See a standard starter triggered flourescent light unit which will have both a choke to control the current and a capacitor to re-align the power factor, if you removed the capacitor you would most likely see a reduction in brightness. (as well as skew the supply a little)

The last workshop I controlled used in excess of 4 megawatt at peak so even the design of the bus bars had to compensate for the capacitance of their runs and the furnaces were designed to have non inductive heater windings (A one megawatt load can seriously skew a power supply if not ballanced)

Hope I remembered it correctly.

Chas

[ozwinner]

Wrong!!!!!
When the voltage drops, the amps increase.

Al :D

[echnidna]

Give it to em Oz

[Peter R]

Wrong!!!!!
When the voltage drops, the amps increase.

Al :DIt has been a long time but......

E over IXR = E 240v (say) 10 ohms = 24 amps
E 140v 10 ohms = 14amps

The windings remain at 10 ohmns, no change. If the amps increased it would be a great boon for power cables. As the voltage dropped the amperage would increase so it would be better to run cable over a long distance with lower voltages, Yes? No!

If you increase the voltage the amperage increases but it will still flow at the 24amps of the 10 ohms resistance until a too high voltage causes an overload.

WADGYAREKON?
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon5.gif
Peter R.

What about that,Bob? You can be the umpire.

[johnmc]

If I operate my 1200W GMC router at 240V, based on the formula P = IE where P is power, I is current and E is voltage, it will draw 5 amps. If the voltage is dropped to say 120V, it will draw 10 amps. Ergo, volts drop, amps increase.

Ohm's Law: E = IR and P = EI

[Cliff Rogers]

It has been a long time but......

E over IXR = E 240v (say) 10 ohms = 24 amps
E 140v 10 ohms = 14amps

....

On a purely resistive load only, a motor is an inductive load & it is even more complicated if it has a capicitor coupled start winding. :D

In a perfect world the formula above works fine for DC theory.
When you move on to AC theory, resistance R becomes impeadance & it can be inductive or capacitive. :eek: It gets messy. :rolleyes:

[Cliff Rogers]

If I operate my 1200W GMC router at 240V, based on the formula P = IE where P is power, I is current and E is voltage, it will draw 5 amps. If the voltage is dropped to say 120V, it will draw 10 amps. Ergo, volts drop, amps increase.

Ohm's Law: E = IR and P = EI

Not nessecelery, see my other post, in AC theory, R is no longer purely resistive, it is impedance, not resistance.... messy, yuky argument, stop now. :D

[CHJ]

Wrong!!!!!
When the voltage drops, the amps increase.

Al :DIts possible on an AC motor, particularly a universal series wound one that the current may increase due to reduced back EMF (motor acts as generator partialy balancing input current).

But on a plain resistive load the current will fall (Ellectric Fire for instance).

I (amps) = V (voltage) / R (resistance)

As Cliff says it can get very messy if you slow an induction or universal motor down to much with a mechanical load because it responds more as a resistive load and will allow considerably more current to flow. (that is why they draw a lot more current at startup when armature is not up to speed)

Chas

[outback]

I have watched this very carefully. If I understand all you experts, what your saying is there ain't no little hamster goin' hell for leather in me router.

I thought when ya plugged it in it just fed him a bit, so he'd work. :o

[Cliff Rogers]

Yeah outback, they gave up using hamsters in routers years ago. :rolleyes:

The problem was the life span of the hamster.
They would outlive the crappy models & not the good models so the owner had to take the router back for a new hamster every couple of years.
Some of the router maintenance people got onto this lurk & they were putting recycled hampsters out of dead crappy models into the better models. ;)

[echnidna]

If you increase the voltage the amperage increases but it will still flow at the 24amps of the 10 ohms resistance until a too high voltage causes an overload.

WADGYAREKON?

Peter R.

What about that,Bob? You can be the umpire.

Well me 9 volt Black and Decker cordless drill goes hell for leather when I put an 18 volt GMC battery in it.

Which just goes to prove that elcheapo crap can work well.
(Hows that for a Hijack PeterR ?)

[outback]

Thanks Cliff for that concise easy to follow answer.
Much better than the drivel everyone else is spouting.

[echnidna]

So I put the 18 volt battery in me Arlec Cordless drill and it let the smoke out of the drill!
bum!

[Peter R]

If I operate my 1200W GMC router at 240V, based on the formula P = IE where P is power, I is current and E is voltage, it will draw 5 amps. If the voltage is dropped to say 120V, it will draw 10 amps. Ergo, volts drop, amps increase.

Ohm's Law: E = IR and P = EI
There is no P in ohms law, not even a silent one like in bath. The equasion goes like this
E over IR. E being Elctron Moving force (one description) for Volts
I is international amperes
R is resistence (Ohms)
To use this equasion to find volts you multiply I (amps) with R (Ohms resistance)
To find I (amps) you divide E (volts) by R (Ohms)
To find R (ohms) you divide E (volts) by I (amps)

One electrical horse power is 640W, Just thought I would throw that in.
I will have a look at my old text books and see if I can come up with the Ohms Law theory on finding wattage.
Mechanical horse power is the ability for one horse to lift one pound 33 thousand feet in one minute, or to lift 33 thousand pound one foot in one minute or.....
This is getting down tho the nitty-gritty ain't it? And I didn't say anything about Hi-jacking the thread Bob, get back on track man!

Peter R.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[echnidna]

Sorry Peter R but 746 watts is one Horsepower.
P=IE or Isquared x R or E squared divided by R
And me Black and Decker drill is a ripper.

Generally speaking halving the voltage of an universal motor doesnt halve the current which usually stays much the same. But the motor speed reduces as the current within the armature is controlled by inductance of the windings more so than by resistance.

[johnmc]

There is no P in ohms law, not even a silent one like in bath. The equasion goes like this
E over IR. E being Elctron Moving force (one description) for Volts
I is international amperes
R is resistence (Ohms)
To use this equasion to find volts you multiply I (amps) with R (Ohms resistance)
To find I (amps) you divide E (volts) by R (Ohms)
To find R (ohms) you divide E (volts) by I (amps)

One electrical horse power is 640W, Just thought I would throw that in.
I will have a look at my old text books and see if I can come up with the Ohms Law theory on finding wattage.
Mechanical horse power is the ability for one horse to lift one pound 33 thousand feet in one minute, or to lift 33 thousand pound one foot in one minute or.....
This is getting down tho the nitty-gritty ain't it? And I didn't say anything about Hi-jacking the thread Bob, get back on track man!

Peter R.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif You mean E = IR, not E over IR

Thanks for the maths lesson

Continuing with the nitty gritty....

There is indeed P in Ohm's law. It stands for power (Watts).

The following link gives detailed equations of Ohm's law which defines the relationship between power, voltage, current and resistance for both DC and AC sources.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/page2.html
(http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/page2.html%0A)

[Peter R]

You mean E = IR, not E over IR

Thanks for the maths lesson

Continuing with the nitty gritty....

There is indeed P in Ohm's law. It stands for power (Watts).

The following link gives detailed equations of Ohm's law which defines the relationship between power, voltage, current and resistance for both DC and AC sources.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/page2.html


I meant the phyisical appearance of the equation is E over IR Now If you draw a circle and then draw a line accross the center of the circle and then draw a line from that center line to the bottom of the circle you should have a half circle and 2 quarter circles. If you put E in the half (upper part) and I in the left Quarter and R in the right quarter you will have the equasion. Whenever you try and remember this you will think of He over her. Now E being upper is always divided by either I or R and R and I being side by side are always multiplied by each other.

I tried the link quickly but didn't come up with ohms law, Later.
I concede the horsepower bit, sorry.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon11.gif
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif
Peter R.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ozwinner]

Man, youve got to ask your Doc to reduce your medication.


Al http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

[outback]

Outbacks law:

T x A / CS =BS

Where T = testosterone
A = Argumentiveness
CS = Common Sense

The answer is a shiiit load.

Guess what BS =

[Peter R]

Man, youve got to ask your Doc to reduce your medication.


Al http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifIt's not my fault Al, when the nice men in the white coats come around and undo my ankle chains they give me my nightly dose, and a big plate of pancakes with tomato sauce, Yum!

It is good to have and excuse - what's yours?
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif
Peter R.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[RETIRED]

Try this.


http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/

[CHJ]

I have watched this very carefully. If I understand all you experts, what your saying is there ain't no little hamster goin' hell for leather in me router.

I thought when ya plugged it in it just fed him a bit, so he'd work. :oThe one in my table router is called "Electron" I must admit I need to "Erg" him on occasionallyhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif.

The one in the hand router is called "Amp" needs the soft start feature to limit his consumption to prevent him burning out because of the poor quality of the windings.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

(sorry, no quick rejoinders here you are all down the pub or sleeping it off when i'm allowed to play)

[jow104]

I'm glad I sold insurance it seems easier than being an electrical engineer :p :p :p :p :p

[jow104]

I got some nasty pop ups when I went to that link you just put on.????????

[journeyman Mick]

I can see how you could get a hamster running hell for leather in a small router or trimmer. What I want to know is how on earth did they get two and a half horses into my big router and does the RSPCA know about this? :confused: And watt are these mysterious things that everyone reckons is equal to a horsepower and why won't anyone say watt they are? :D

Mick

[graemet]

Q1. Have Windows 98, does not have the facility you suggested.

Peter R. Getting back on track, Peter. Win98 computers have this function in the setup, ie when you turn the computer on, amongst all the crap that scrolls up the screen is "hit DEL to enter setup" (or something like that, it's a while since I had Win98). Go to "Power Management Setup", scroll down to "PWRON after PWR fail" and toggle it to "off". Then your computer won't turn itself on when the power comes on again. I used the feature the other way, ie. to turn the computer on when I switched the power point on at the wall that had everything connected to it, printer, modem, speakers etc.
Cheers,
Graeme.

[CHJ]

I can see how you could get a hamster running hell for leather in a small router or trimmer. What I want to know is how on earth did they get two and a half horses into my big router MickMay not be horses, just Bigger Hampsters on steroids, I think anything that can lift 1cwt 1foot for 1minute will do.

[RETIRED]

I got some nasty pop ups when I went to that link you just put on.????????
Don't shoot the messenger :D I just put the link up.

[Peter R]

I'm glad I sold insurance it seems easier than being an electrical engineer :p :p :p :p :p
You would have had the harder job,jow104, I don't know how you could sell insurance and keep a straight face.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif
Peter R.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Peter R]

Try this.


http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/
Thanks , now I see why you get the big money.
Guess what (not watt) I did a calculation and when I dropped the voltage from 240 to 140 the amps came down with the same resistance.
Drop the voltage and the amps drop too, not increase.
Now Bob, umpire, mate, I want you to go back to whomever it was that said I was wrong and Just explain to him....If you don't mind.

If you feed hampsters on good pancakes they will run like a horse...true.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

Peter R.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[echnidna]

The theory involved with electric motors is far more complex than mere Ohms Law.
The performance of electric motors are influenced by
Mechanical loads
Voltage
Current
Resistance
Inductive Reactance
Capacitive Reactance
Magnetic properties of the iron (etc) in the motor
Hysteresis
Phase shifts as a result of the motor design.
Frequency, and possibly other things I can't recall at the monent

Significant errors can occur if you apply simple ohms law to a motor.
Dynamic testing is the only accurate way to assess the relationships of voltage and current, (unless you are a design electrical engineer)

[echnidna]

Generally if you halve the voltage applied to the motor the performance deteriorates but the speed doesnt reduce very much. (The same applies if you double the motor voltage, the current doesn't increase very much)

[jow104]

PeterR.

I found the easiest way to sell insurance was to let the client buy, that saved me a great deal of effort.

(Ex. Pearl Assurance man now AMP)

[Cliff Rogers]

...I did a calculation and when I dropped the voltage from 240 to 140 the amps came down with the same resistance.
Drop the voltage and the amps drop too, not increase.
Now Bob, umpire, mate, I want you to go back to whomever it was that said I was wrong and Just explain to him....If you don't mind....

If you feed hampsters on good pancakes they will run like a horse...true...

Pete, you are on a hid'n ta nuth'n, stop now. :cool:

The calculation you did was on paper & it assumes DC current & a purely resistive load.

A router motor is NOT running on DC & it's NOT a purely resistive load.

Somethings are NOT what they seem on paper, even if you ARE using a calculator. ;)

There's a differance between electrical & electronical.

Electrical is simple, electronical is complex.
Once you move away from straight DC & purely resistive loads, it becomes electronical.
You can still use simple laws for calculating loads with houshold AC power if you don't start F'n around with the voltage 'cos the stuff was designed to behave fairly normaly at those set voltages. Once you start dicking with the voltage, you are outside the normal design parameters & they don't, READ DO NOT, behave according to simple laws that you can work out in your head or even on your calculator.

Now, let's get back to the more IMPORTANT things in life.... 42?

Test ya pancake mix on THIS!!!! :D
(don't ask me how I found it 'cos you won't believe me.)

[jow104]

WHAT DATE DO YOUR CHILDREN BREAK UP FROM SCHOOL???????

Kids have been known to use other peoples computers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Don Nethercott]

Re those nasty pop-ups - if you have windows XP get service pack 2 (the CD is free from Microsoft) - it stops them all.

Caution!! - it can also stop your bank, etc, popups so you may have to enter your bank's, etc, web address(es) in the exceptions box.

[Peter R]

Getting back on track, Peter. Win98 computers have this function in the setup, ie when you turn the computer on, amongst all the crap that scrolls up the screen is "hit DEL to enter setup" (or something like that, it's a while since I had Win98). Go to "Power Management Setup", scroll down to "PWRON after PWR fail" and toggle it to "off". Then your computer won't turn itself on when the power comes on again. I used the feature the other way, ie. to turn the computer on when I switched the power point on at the wall that had everything connected to it, printer, modem, speakers etc.
Cheers,
Graeme.
Out of the steaming mist from decaying gobbldeygook comes the one man that has kept head clear of all distractions, and pancake recipes, to give help in the original reason for the post.
Thank you Graeme, it was a little different than you explained but your help put me in the right direction. I have switched off the power after failure sequence, so that should solve that problem at least.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon6.gif

Happy Chrissy.

Peter Rhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[echnidna]

"the steaming mist from decaying gobbldeygook"

Now that is a brilliant phrase PeterR, seems a pity to waste it in one big paragraph so I might see if there are other places to use it.

Actually getting a straight answer after only 4 pages is pretty good going!

[Peter R]

"the steaming mist from decaying gobbldeygook"

Now that is a brilliant phrase PeterR, seems a pity to waste it in one big paragraph so I might see if there are other places to use it.

Actually getting a straight answer after only 4 pages is pretty good going!
Give it back,Bob, or I'll tell. Too bloody late, you've already used it in another post - you are a plaga....plagr.....plugg.....a word robber.

Peter R.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon8.gif(not really)