is common sence dead?

[weisyboy]

being brought up in the bush and working a long way from the nearest store or servo i have learnt to make do. its amazing what can be fixed with a bit of 8 gauge wire or electrical tape. we never had a lot of spare cash so we always made something we needed before we would buy it.

in teh last 12 months i have been amazed at the lack of common sence and practical knowledge some people have.

------

i was on my way from dalby to mundubera one day a few months back and pulled into a gravel pit for lunch. there was a couple there in an old station wagon with a camper trailer teh wagon had broken a spring. there was no mobile reception any ware within cooee and they had been waiting there for a day and a half for someone to help them. (not on teh side of teh road but 100m off it in a gravel pit.

i cut a spotty sapling about 75mm diamiter and wired it to the chassis and axle and followed tehm back into dalby.

they couldn't believe that you could fix a car with a sapling.


------

i struck a woman that had a flat tyre on teh new england highway, waiting for a tow truck to come from warwic (50ks away) cos she didnt know she had a spare tyre under the floor in teh boot.

-----

the amount of people we have winched out that have pulled off teh road only to find themselves in a table drain 3' deep is ridiculous.

------

a split radiator hose can be fixed with a cob and co and a bit of electrical tape.

------

lots of people with 4wd dont know how to put them in 4wd.

it astounds me the stupidity of some people. im sure there verry good at what they do but some people shouldnt leave the big smoke.

[ozhunter]

I think, to a large degree you are right.

People today don't have to rely on themselves nearly as much as they have in the past.

When we were kids we spent all our time outside, or working with Dad, we have 3000 acres. I remember me and my brother fighting over who was going to go to work with him. We were doing a mans days work at 12 or 13 and thought nothing of it. Try getting most 12 year olds today to do that.

All that time spent working, I believe, equipped us to be more self reliant, more inventive and come up with ways round things.

Today's world provides easy fixes for just about anything and stuff like 4x4 vehicles are more of a status symbol than a tool.

Although it has changed in the last couple of years, more expendable income and a throw away society has also changed the way people do things. Why bother trying to fix it, when I can go get a new one.

Urbanisation (I think that is the term for more people moving to or living in the city) doesn't help either. I met a bloke a few years ago who was in his mid twenties and had never been any further West of Sydney than Penrith. I think this type of thing stops people from being put in situations where they have to use their scone to get out of a fix - never leaving suburbia means that a mechanic or a tow truck is never more than a few minutes away, so they don't need to learn to be more self supportive (use common sense to fix a problem).

They should make common sense a compulsory subject at school from K to Yr12:U and the first lesson should be that 18 year olds don't have what it takes to be a cop (sorry for the minor hi-jack, one of my pet hates)

oz

[jimbur]

Totally agree with you Carl but I think it's in the culture nowadays. The problem is that so much is 'magic' and lives in a sealed box that they think everything has to be done by experts.
The driving test should at least have a component that covers the basics like wheel changing, fan belts, oil levels, radiator and battery.
Cheers,
Jim

[Rum Pig]

Common sense is not that common.

I agree with you all but the bad news is it is going to get worse.
SWMBO has been on these courses about early child hood and some things are very scary.
One problem that is coming the attention of experts now is kids have been too spoilt. What I mean is if a kid wishes the play with money they get play money that looks very real. If they wish to do play cooking they get a plastic oven that looks very real and so on. No longer are kids getting a card board box and making a oven or paper and cut out money, so their imaginations are not being developed.
SWMBO as part of a course gave new mums of kids 3 years and under a plastic bag with things like a wooden spoon, plastic cups and bowl and plate etc and then asked the mums to play with their child with only what was in the bag and most parents could not think of anything not even making drums out of the bowls and cups. So it has started 20+ years ago and we are in for a long road back to common sense.

If you have a small child or grandchild think twice about what toys you buy them. I have a 3 year old and since SWMBO has been on this course we have changed the way we think and we can already see the benefits from our son.

Just to finish I remember hearing a story of a young lady that could not get into her car because the the battery on her key had gone flat. She fail to realise that the key could be used to old fashioned way of inserting it into the key hole and turning:doh:
Oh and who buys a mobile phone for the phone feature these days:?

[Charleville]

Good topic.

It makes me wonder if they still teach kids basic survival skills like I learnt at school in the 1950's.

ie things like how to treat a snakebite. (Well - not sure if that is such a great example because they don't encourage people to slice open the bite with a razor blade or a bit of broken glass, tie a tourniquet above the bite and suck out the poison with one's mouth like we were taught. :D )


.

[Scribbly Gum]

We are in a society that is so scared of litigation that unless signs are erected for every little thing, people can claim that they were not warned and so sue someone for the consequences of their own stupidity.
Unfortunately this over-signage has had the effect of helping turn some, who were already dills, into zombies.
Here are some signs that have been seen - judge for yourself:

[RETIRED]

Oh and who buys a mobile phone for the phone feature these daysMe.:D

[Rum Pig]

We are in a society that is so scared of litigation that unless signs are erected for every little thing, people can claim that they were not warned and so sue someone for the consequences of their own stupidity.
Unfortunately this over-signage has had the effect of helping turn some, who were already dills, into zombies.
Here are some signs that have been seen - judge for yourself:
They are assuming people can read also not so common these days:no:

[barnsey]

There is nothing quite so uncommon as common sense.

Don't know who said it but ain't it the truth!:(

Carl your examples are interesting but not at all unbelievable.

People these days do not even know why there are some buttons on the bottom of the shirt front much less how they could use them :C.

Common sense should be a mandatory subject for all to pass at all levels of education and a prerequisite to the purchase of any piece of equipment with any sort of instruction sheet/manual. Still I guess with the population expanding the way that it is, I suppose there are just too many towns who've lost their village idiot:doh:

[BobL]

Common sense should be a mandatory subject for all to pass at all levels of education and a prerequisite to the purchase of any piece of equipment with any sort of instruction sheet/manual. Still I guess with the population expanding the way that it is, I suppose there are just too many towns who've lost their village idiot:doh:

Just a reminder that common sense is not a magic bullet and often badly wrong, after all common sense once was that
- the earth is flat
- the sun goes around the earth
- a steam ship will never be able to carry enough coal to cross the atlantic
- a man must walk in front of all moving motor vehicles carrying a red flag
- if you are sick let me extract a couple of pints of blood and you will feel a lot better

Common sense is impossible to teach but we could teach a lot more logic and teach kids to question a lot more than they do now, but most wacky parents won't like like their footy team, religion or politics being questioned? And these are often the ones that want the common sense taught.

[Ashore]

is common sence dead? ...no.. .the English language on the other hand :cl:
The world has changed, and people are taught different life skills today, Skills that are relevant to todays world, this is the same process that has always been there. Things that our grandparents were taught as kids are now not needed in todays world ,



it astounds me the stupidity of some people..

but to call people stupid because they get into a problem when they are outside their comfort zone is, in my opinion a very narrow view indeed. :no:

[Rum Pig]

Common sense should be a mandatory subject for all to pass at all levels of education and a prerequisite to the purchase of any piece of equipment with any sort of instruction sheet/manual. Still I guess with the population expanding the way that it is, I suppose there are just too many towns who've lost their village idiot:doh:
Who is going to teach the teachers:?

[barnsey]

is common sence dead? ...no.. .the English language on the other hand :cl:
The world has changed, and people are taught different life skills today, Skills that are relevant to todays world, this is the same process that has always been there. Things that our grandparents were taught as kids are now not needed in todays world ,



but to call people stupid because they get into a problem when they are outside their comfort zone is, in my opinion a very narrow view indeed. :no:

Today's world is all about comfort zones. No-one wants to get outside the idiot box or game machine. We need reality shows for people to experience the real world and an endless supply of celebrity/entertainment world info.

Give me a break :C

The opinions of most people are so narrow they are beyond definition.

OK I'll get off the soap box before I get abusive but I'm positive that the western world and it's people are far too sheltered from the realities of existence hence the unanimous disregard of the environment and any social condemnation or commitment. It'll all be too late when the masses realize that common sense should have prevailed. Today's world has deprived the populace from being able to be common and have some sense about it.

Clearly blind Freddy and his dog are ever multiplying :~

[barnsey]

Who is going to teach the teachers:?

Good point

Used to be done by the people who had experience in real world life when I was a kid.

Think something went wrong somewhere:roll:

[acmegridley]

What about the Deputy Speaker in Parliament pressed the emergency button in one of the kazzies down there,thought he was locked in,help arrived, it was then he discovered it was sliding door.
God help us!!

[lesmeyer]

A few months back, my son's mate had just qualified as a Mazda mechanic on the Friday. Next day he was at our place and forgot the lights on of his old little Mazda. Battery flat he asked me for jumpers. Not wanting to risk the electronics of my car I suggested we push start the car. The QUALIFIED mechanic did not know how. He had never done it before. I sat in the car for the push start while he and my son pushed the car (the old 2nd gear, ignition on and release the clutch thing we ol timers know so well). :D
Les

[barnsey]

Yes we old blokes do.

Not sure I agree with the sentiment that the younger ones learn things more relevant to the current times. Bought a heap of rechargeable batteries and when I ask where they are - they were flat so I threw them out :o.

And pinched the ones out of the parents remote to keep theirs going :oo::((.

Ok I'm getting off the soap box again :B.

[BobL]

. . . . . I sat in the car for the push start while he and my son pushed the car

Tragic but as it should be!

[weisyboy]

someone who has been to university and got a bit of paper is more qualified to do sompthing than someone that has done it all there life?

i did 2 quotes today.

-------

one was for materials for a fence in makay.

they wanted palings 2.5m x 250mm x 30mm with a ship lap each side.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Shiplap.dwg.gif

and needed 2400 of them.

now for a start 250mm x 30mm is not a standard size. you just cant buy it, this means we will have to custom cut it.

2.5 m isn't a standard size we will have to use 2.7m logs and dock them back.

most planning mills cant profile 250mm boards they are limited to 230 (the size of a dressed step tread), so the profile will have to be cut on a spindle molder.

they have to be f14 and class 2 durability for a fence?

we also have to supply rails for them to be screwed to. they are 175mm x 50mm x 2.4m. what are they keeping in dinosaurs. these will be mounted on 200mm x 200mm steel posts.

now them specifying non standard sizes and way oversize pieces has doubled the price.

----------

the other was for a city council who are building a foot bridge.

they wanted the following

100mm x 100mm finished size, seasoned, pencil round, f14 hardwood

180 x 60 finished size, seasoned, DAR, f14 hardwood

150mm x 38mm reeded reverse decking.

again none of these are standard sizes, and would have to be custom cut and machined.

i recommended standard sizes but they said thats teh way teh architect and engineer designed it so thats the way it is.:no:

once they get a shower of rain on there kiln dried hardwood it will swell and loosen then shrink back and crack.
--------

it will cost the tax payer extra but thats ok because these people have a sheet of paper to say they know what they are doing.

[InterTD6]

What is being pushed these days is uncommon sense, to think outside the box. I have had to babysit truly remarkably intelligent people in very dangerous environments, somehow & I don't know how, I haven't lost one, but there have been some really close calls. Its horses for courses, they could make some amazing scientific discovery which not many of us are capable of, luckily I have a broad life skill base, trade background and tertiary qualifications too, so I can see both sides of the fence. But then again no engineer in private practice would specify non standard sizes.
regards inter

[artme]

Carl, in many ways what you say about common sense in your first post is not about common sense at all. It's about exerience. Many people have not had the sort of experience needed to enable them to cope with the situations you describe.

I do not carry handy bits of #8 wire and other assorted bits and pieces because I might need them to get me out of a fix! But that doesn't make me stupid or lacking in common sense.


Your examples of non- standard sizes for timber are more to the point. They show a distinct lack of common sense and - in the case of the council- an abundance of pigheadedess and a disregard for ratepayers"" money.

[barnsey]

Here I go again,

Call it lacking common sense or lacking life experience doesn't change anything. Playing a computer game for hours or knowing the ins and outs of entertainment industry stars does not give anyone life experience or common sense.

The current day mentality relies upon instant gratification - turn it on and let me play or veg out. My parents would give me a clip over the ear if I ever had that approach and be told to go outside and play. You learnt to socialize with people and learnt from the hard knocks Today they all get driven to school just in case the school bully picks on them on the bus or train. Is it any wonder today's youth can't hold or get a job - they've never had to fight for anything for themselves.

There's a lot to be said for compulsory armed forces service to impart some common sense.

OK soap box away but I believe society today has a lot to answer for - collectively we have become so protected in cotton wool cocoons that the life skills are just disappearing.

[weisyboy]

but when they get into a situation where they can get that experience tehy dont have teh faintest idea of what to do.

i always carry the following things.

spare tyre
jack
jack handle!!!!
wheel brace
tyre plug kit
cans of air
50m of fencing wire
axe
tape
chain/strap
knead it.
toolbox with tools in it.

there is almost nothing that cant be fixed with that kit.

when i break down first thing i do is look whats wrong then i look for sompthing to fix it.

most people when they break down ring RACQ.

why would tehy fix it them selves when tehy can pay someone to do it.

[A Duke]

A few months back, my son's mate had just qualified as a Mazda mechanic on the Friday. Next day he was at our place and forgot the lights on of his old little Mazda. Battery flat he asked me for jumpers. Not wanting to risk the electronics of my car I suggested we push start the car. The QUALIFIED mechanic did not know how. He had never done it before. I sat in the car for the push start while he and my son pushed the car (the old 2nd gear, ignition on and release the clutch thing we ol timers know so well). :D
Les
I am a bit late in answering this but have you tried that with an automatic? They all drive them now days since you have to be able to count to more than 3 with a 5 or 6 speed box.
You won't find 2nd automatically!!! (chuckle)

[nihilism]

We have a 16 year old 1st year apprentice, he has been working for us for 6 months now.

He went to private school, his mum, dad or sister drive him to work and pick him up from work every day, even though it would be less than 2km walk to the train station at each end of a 15 minute train ride.

He disapears at 4pm on the dot every day, 2pm on fridays unless he's out on site with one of us that generally always work until 4 on fridays (2 hours overtime on top of a 38 hour week).

He has already been given the family car for when he gets his licence, his mum went out and bought a new one for herself.

When he was offered the job by the former branch manager he was given a number of weeks to get his paperwork in to the apprentiship board. He didn't do it in time and was told the job was no longer available, but as it happens his dad is best buddys with one of the board members and after some phone calls by daddy the position was open again.

Today I arrived at the office at 7:30am and had to call one of my customers who had an urgent issue so i wasn't paying much attention to the fact he was sitting opposite me doing nothing. 15 minutes later my supervisor walks in and says to him "What's going on, have you got nothing to do?", his reply, "No no ones told me anything." supervisor: "So you've finnished such and such i gave you to do on friday then?" apprentice: "Oh yeah i forgot about that."

At about 2pm i was back in the office and heard the supervisor remind him again to put the bin out today before he goes home. Bin was still sitting at the back door when i was about to leave.

To me his behaviour and lack of initative is of someone that does not want a job. When i was that age i would have done anything for a job.

Last apprentice was the same, he made it to 3rd year before we put so much pressure on him he quit.

Anyway, time are changing i guess. Maybe we need higher unemployment so these kids actually have to try.

[InterTD6]

We have a 16 year old 1st year apprentice, he has been working for us for 6 months now.

He went to private school, his mum, dad or sister drive him to work and pick him up from work every day, even though it would be less than 2km walk to the train station at each end of a 15 minute train ride.

He disapears at 4pm on the dot every day, 2pm on fridays unless he's out on site with one of us that generally always work until 4 on fridays (2 hours overtime on top of a 38 hour week).

He has already been given the family car for when he gets his licence, his mum went out and bought a new one for herself.

When he was offered the job by the former branch manager he was given a number of weeks to get his paperwork in to the apprentiship board. He didn't do it in time and was told the job was no longer available, but as it happens his dad is best buddys with one of the board members and after some phone calls by daddy the position was open again.

Today I arrived at the office at 7:30am and had to call one of my customers who had an urgent issue so i wasn't paying much attention to the fact he was sitting opposite me doing nothing. 15 minutes later my supervisor walks in and says to him "What's going on, have you got nothing to do?", his reply, "No no ones told me anything." supervisor: "So you've finnished such and such i gave you to do on friday then?" apprentice: "Oh yeah i forgot about that."

At about 2pm i was back in the office and heard the supervisor remind him again to put the bin out today before he goes home. Bin was still sitting at the back door when i was about to leave.

To me his behaviour and lack of initative is of someone that does not want a job. When i was that age i would have done anything for a job.

Last apprentice was the same, he made it to 3rd year before we put so much pressure on him he quit.

Anyway, time are changing i guess. Maybe we need higher unemployment so these kids actually have to try.
He's 16, actually gets to work, makes it to then end of the week, then turns up again the following week, in this day & age some adults are flat out doing that week in week out.
regards inter

[Ray153]

but when they get into a situation where they can get that experience tehy dont have teh faintest idea of what to do.

i always carry the following things.

spare tyre
jack
jack handle!!!!
wheel brace
tyre plug kit
cans of air
50m of fencing wire
axe
tape
chain/strap
knead it.
toolbox with tools in it.

there is almost nothing that cant be fixed with that kit.

when i break down first thing i do is look whats wrong then i look for sompthing to fix it.

most people when they break down ring RACQ.

why would tehy fix it them selves when tehy can pay someone to do it.

And why have you decided that it is wise to carry these items in your car? Because experience has taught you they are useful.

Before you had that experience, you would not have known the practical uses of these items in those situations and would have been just as stuck as those people you claim have no common sense.

A more accurate description might well be that these people have no experience thus have not learnt the same lessons as you.

If you were picked up and placed into the life and circumstances of these people, perhaps you would be in precisely the same situation as these people find themselves when placed in your environment.

[weisyboy]

thaught it was common sense to carry enough tools to fix something if it breaks.

experience didnt tell me i could use a sapling to replace a spring common sense told me that anything that will hold the car of teh axle will work.

you cant get experience if you don't try.

[jimbur]

thaught it was common sense to carry enough tools to fix something if it breaks.
experience didnt tell me i could use a sapling to replace a spring common sense told me that anything that will hold the car of teh axle will work.
you cant get experience if you don't try.

Agreed Carl. It's also common sense to know that things break down and commonsense to know when you're outside your comfort zone.
cheers,
Jim

[kiwigeo]

why would tehy fix it them selves when tehy can pay someone to do it.

That's a good example of common sense.

:D

[kiwigeo]

I do not carry handy bits of #8 wire and other assorted bits and pieces because I might need them to get me out of a fix! But that doesn't make me stupid or lacking in common sense.



I don't carry 50m of fencing wire in my car either.....I doubt I could get that much wire into the back seat of my Mazda hatchback.

[kiwigeo]

i always carry the following things.

spare tyre
jack
jack handle!!!!
wheel brace
tyre plug kit
cans of air
50m of fencing wire
axe
tape
chain/strap
knead it.
toolbox with tools in it.

there is almost nothing that cant be fixed with that kit.



So how would you deal with a failed engine management unit with your extensive tool kit? The average motor vehicle being driven by Joe Average citizen doesn't have alot of parts on it that are serviceable by Joe Average motorist.

For the record I have a University Degree but I also have a fairly good knowledge of the workings of motor vehicles having spent 4 years working in a garage midway through my degree. I spend half my year away working so the remaining half of the year I really have better things to do with my time than dick around with my car. If the thing plays up and its more complicated than a flat tyre it goes into the shop and I pay someone else to fix it...its a choice I make for quite valid reasons and it doesn't mean I lack common sense.

[BobL]

Although I don't do a lot of country driving I've usually carried a few metres of wire with me in all the cars I've owned or leased (even the ones I've driven overseas for extensive periods) for the last 40 years. The wire is just one of those small rolls found in hardware stores and I usually store it in the spare wheel well. The one time I've needed a piece of wire was when I was towing a small boat trailer and one of the welds holding a mudguard on broke and the guard started flapping around. Ah - Ha! I thought - now I get to use my wire! But with my luck the wire was in the wheel well of the Subaru station wagon which was packed to the gunnels with stuff - I was just about to start unloading everything when SWMBO noticed a half roll of rusty fencing wire laying a few metres away. Now I did have enough common sense to keep the pliers in a tool box behind the driver seat so within minutes we were on our way.

I also carry a HD battery pack with built in jumper cables in my van. I have helped so many people with that thing, as well as using it on my own vehicle (diesel) as well. I also carry an axe in the van but haven't had to used it yet and usually there's a chainsaw or two in there as well but haven't had to use those either. I'm thinking one day I will come across an ambo blocked in by a fallen tree that I can rescue.

[BobL]

An Obituary printed in the London Times - Interesting and sadly rather true


Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm;
- Life isn't always fair;
- and Maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 4 loopy stepbrothers;
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

[Wongo]

So what are we now? A country that everyone is an auto mechanic?

[kiwigeo]

I think theyre called Automotive Technicians these days....I guess someone has to plug in the laptop.

[Wongo]

Automotive Technicians don't have much common sense.

[silentC]

Common sense is such a mis-used term these days. I like to think of my Grandmother, for example, as being a person possessed of great common sense and yet I doubt she was ever able to fix a car with a roll of fencing wire. On the other hand, some people who apparently consider themselves to have common sense don't see any issue with removing guards from machinery or wearing thongs when they should be wearing boots, so I really don't know what to make of this.

I think what you're really complaining about is that a lot of city people are finding their way into the bush and getting into trouble because they're unprepared for it. But I've seen enough wide-eyed country boys wandering around mouth agape in dodgey parts of Sydney to realise that it cuts both ways.

Maybe instead of feeling all superior when you find someone in a sticky situation of their own making, you should be thankful that you were able to help them out and hope that some day the favour is returned, because anyone can end up on the wrong side of things and smugness doesn't really help anyone.

[Wongo]

on the other hand, some people who apparently consider themselves to have common sense don't see any issue with removing guards from machinery or wearing thongs when they should be wearing boots, so i really don't know what to make of this.



Hmmm.... :D

[MurrayD99]

Hmmm.... :D

Hmmmmmmmm..... I see...... Yesss.... :D

[Master Splinter]

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. In a nutshell: 79 year old woman gets 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body, required skin grafts and 8 days in hospital and two years of follow up treatments. Claimed cost of hospital treatment ($20k) from McDonalds. (they offered $800. During litigation, they also refused to settle for $90k and $225k, despite having settled similar cases for $500k.) Documents show more than 700 claims by people burned by Maccas coffee in a ten year period. McDonalds claims to be ignorant of the fact that people drink its coffee in their cars (despite their own research showing that the majority of their take-away coffee was drunk there). Awarded $160k after appeals. Trial judge also awards $2.7 million in punitive damages (dropped to $480k on appeal) as McDonalds showed continued 'reckless, callous and willful' behaviour in serving coffee at temperatures they knew would cause immediate harm. $2.7 million was about 2 days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds.

[Scorp]

I reckon I have a modicum of common sense, but when the "ignition module" failed in my car about 50km from anywhere, about the only thing I could have used the #8 wire for was as a tow-rope.(I've done just that in the past!)
IMO, common sense accrues with life led, and can also be defined as learning from experience.Townies can't become bushies just by changing addresses any more than bushies can fit in to city life.

[silentC]

That's true. Last time I went to Sydney I discovered they had changed the bus ticket system and I had to work out how to buy the right ticket before I got on the bus. That wasn't as easy as you might think but even children can do it when they know how.

[Harry72]

I still laugh remembering a few years back at a "Uni Degree"(metallurgist), he wanted a sample of dross off one of our pans of molten lead(500°c) so along he comes with a plastic scoop hmmm that dont work so he disappears and returns several days later with a shiny new metal scoop yep that works but... into a plastic bag!

Same bloke needed to run a air driven pump for a new process he was developing, god knows how but he managed to connect up to a gas line(would've taken some tricky adapting fittings)... all he needed was a spark plug and away she would've went!
To friggin proudly smart to ask a dumb #### operator like me what to do.
Bright sparks often dont have common sense... sorry sence:D

[weisyboy]

Common sense is such a mis-used term these days. I like to think of my Grandmother, for example, as being a person possessed of great common sense and yet I doubt she was ever able to fix a car with a roll of fencing wire. On the other hand, some people who apparently consider themselves to have common sense don't see any issue with removing guards from machinery or wearing thongs when they should be wearing boots, so I really don't know what to make of this.


so long as you have the common sence not to put your hands into the blade, or chop into your foot than the guards are not needed.


In a nutshell: 79 year old woman gets 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body, required skin grafts and 8 days in hospital and two years of follow up treatments. Claimed cost of hospital treatment ($20k) from McDonalds. (they offered $800. During litigation, they also refused to settle for $90k and $225k, despite having settled similar cases for $500k.) Documents show more than 700 claims by people burned by Maccas coffee in a ten year period. McDonalds claims to be ignorant of the fact that people drink its coffee in their cars (despite their own research showing that the majority of their take-away coffee was drunk there). Awarded $160k after appeals. Trial judge also awards $2.7 million in punitive damages (dropped to $480k on appeal) as McDonalds showed continued 'reckless, callous and willful' behaviour in serving coffee at temperatures they knew would cause immediate harm. $2.7 million was about 2 days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds.

mcdonalds coffee is bloody hot, you cant drink it for an hour.


I reckon I have a modicum of common sense, but when the "ignition module" failed in my car about 50km from anywhere, about the only thing I could have used the #8 wire for was as a tow-rope.(I've done just that in the past!)
IMO, common sense accrues with life led, and can also be defined as learning from experience.Townies can't become bushies just by changing addresses any more than bushies can fit in to city life.

but you have enough common sense to know that wire can be used as a tow rope.

[silentC]

so long as you have the common sence not to put your hands into the blade, or chop into your foot than the guards are not needed. Aren't you sporting a couple of scars yourself there Weisy Boy? How did that happen? Did you forget not to put your hand into the blade, or did the blade do something you didn't expect it to?

Blade guard in case the tool tries to bite you vs. roll of fencing wire in case a leaf spring breaks. Hard to see the difference there Weisy. What's your criteria for "no common sense" versus "she'll be right, mate"?

[weisyboy]

yes i do have some scars, and thats from being careless and not listening to my common sense.

i cut my finger off, i came to teh bench and my common sense told me to drop the table down but i was lazy and didnt want to spend 5 seconds so i used it how it was. bad idea.



most workplace health and safety rules have come in due to teh lack of common sense.

i have a mate that works in a slaughterhouse, they just put in a new bone grinder, the OHS guy came in and said they couldn't use it until the opening had bars or mesh so that a persons hand couldn't fit. now how do you get leg bones and the like into a grinder that has mesh over the opening. they cant rely on common sense to tell workers NOT to stick there arms into the machine that is made to grind bones.

[Harry72]

"i have a mate that works in a slaughterhouse, they just put in a new bone grinder, the OHS guy came in and said they couldn't use it until the opening had bars or mesh so that a persons hand couldn't fit. now how do you get leg bones and the like into a grinder that has mesh over the opening. they cant rely on common sense to tell workers NOT to stick there arms into the machine that is made to grind bones."

Simple, make it a batch process rather than continuous feed that way the hopper is filled while the machine is locked out and then activated by dual switches like a machine press... no human limbs involved.

We get this kinda crap all the time at my work engineers think by saving $2 in build/maintenance/running cost she'll be Jake, something simple that might be costlier or harder to design in the long run will save the company money.
Common sense does not come into it in this situation, no fool would do that they think its human nature to take short cuts to get the job done faster or cheaper... No amount of common sense or PPE can protect you from bad engineering!

[Geoff Dean]

yes i do have some scars, and thats from being careless and not listening to my common sense.

i cut my finger off, i came to teh bench and my common sense told me to drop the table down but i was lazy and didnt want to spend 5 seconds so i used it how it was. bad idea.

most workplace health and safety rules have come in due to teh lack of common sense.

That's all well and good, after the fact, claiming it was lazy of you and a bad idea. But what happens when someone removes a guard that shouldn't be removed and the next person that uses the machine, that has always had a guard in place, suddenly finds that the guard isn't there?

What happens if he just trips as he is walking past, and falls into the machine with the guard removed?

It wasn't his laziness or bad idea, but the criminal negligence of someone else. All the common sense in the world is not going to help him.

If he's lucky, they can put all the bits back where they belong and maybe they will work, if he's unlucky, they ship him out in a pine box.

If you think this is fanciful, it happened in a printing plant last week in Sydney. The person involved is being shipped out in a pine box.

[silentC]

yes i do have some scars, and thats from being careless and not listening to my common sense.

The point I'm trying to make Weisy is that sometimes things happen that are either outside your control or that you didn't plan for, so having guards in place is for those times - not to stop you deliberately sticking your hand into the blade. Wearing boots instead of thongs is to protect your feet if you drop something on them, not so you can drop kick lumps of steel.

When I set off in my car, I don't plan on having something break. If I have thought of it as a possibility, I might have a roll of fencing wire in the boot, but a lot of people wouldn't even think of it. It doesn't mean they lack common sense or are stupid (your words), it means that they have never driven around the outback in an old Holden with their Dad and had something like it happen and had to fix it. Most of them have an NRMA/RACQ/RACV membership instead. A friend of ours drove to Wilcannia in his new Pajero only to have the cylinder head crack. He was a bit like you, thought he could fix anything that went wrong - so he wasn't in the NRMA. Had to pay over $1,000 to have it towed. It was either that or leave it on the side of the road. So maybe being in the RACQ wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Putting a roll of fencing wire in the boot "in case" is no different to having a guard on your angle grinder "in case". Can't you see that? What's the difference? Taking the guard off would be seen by many as against common sense. Some might even call it stupid. Others consider it a calculated risk. It all depends on your perspective.

It's very subjective to refer to it as a lack of common sense. If you went to the city, do you consider yourself "street smart"? Would you like it if the people you met called you stupid because you don't know how to use the public transport system or stay out of trouble?

Like I said, if you could help someone out, I think the noble thing to do is to be glad you could help, not go and post on an Internet forum how stupid you think they are. Especially fixing the spring with a sapling. That is quite ingenious.

[Wongo]

yes i do have some scars, and thats from being careless and not listening to my common sense.

This is deep and meaningful.:doh:

[Greg Ward]

Well, deep in any event, perhaps painful rather than meaningful
Greg

[BobL]

Wow - this has livened up again I see.

Carry on.

[Wongo]

Honestly I know nothing about cars and I am not touching that yucky car engine and getting my hands all dirty. :yucky:

[Terry B]

Honestly I know nothing about cars and I am not touching that yucky car engine and getting my hands all dirty. :yucky:
I agree.
Whilst I can fix engines I choose to pay to have a relatively new car that is reliable rather than have to worry that the car may not be reliable and need fixing.
I get my hands dirty in other ways.:oo:

[silentC]

I do hope you wear gloves, Terry :D

I think anybody who was born before the 80's will have grown up with an old Ford or Holden that you could fix just about anything on yourself - let's face it you had to because the bloody things had a habit of breaking down. Modern cars are a different story. How do the gap the points or set the timing on a modern motor? :D

[MurrayD99]

I do hope you wear gloves, Terry :D

I think anybody who was born before the 80's will have grown up with an old Ford or Holden that you could fix just about anything on yourself - let's face it you had to because the bloody things had a habit of breaking down. Modern cars are a different story. How do the gap the points or set the timing on a modern motor? :D

VT running rough: I told the dealer I thought the needle & seat were stuffed.... they understood the symptoms from that - of course it was sensors in the cat converter telling the EMS something or other. Scott and Terry have it right - being unable to find the bonnet catch isn't necessarily fatal these days

[bluegum30]

Most work sites don't comply with 100% safety, so a dash of commensense is generaly required .in the case of what Wiesy wrote about first, the people in the broken down car should not have left the road.to leave the road and wait elsewere was truly a lack of commonsense .but the bones being ground in a grinder, to feed the grinder and expect never to have an accident by the virtu of being super careful, is asking for trouble, the batch hopper idea is the way to go remember it not how fast the job gets done is the only consideration it's that the employee gets to go home uninjured and alive after work .

[Terry B]

I do hope you wear gloves, Terry :D

I think anybody who was born before the 80's will have grown up with an old Ford or Holden that you could fix just about anything on yourself - let's face it you had to because the bloody things had a habit of breaking down. Modern cars are a different story. How do the gap the points or set the timing on a modern motor? :D
I have a big box of gloves that gets emptied regularly.:2tsup:

[Ian Smith]

Had to edit this a bit but I'm sure you get the drift.

[beer is good]

That's all well and good, after the fact, claiming it was lazy of you and a bad idea. But what happens when someone removes a guard that shouldn't be removed and the next person that uses the machine, that has always had a guard in place, suddenly finds that the guard isn't there?

What happens if he just trips as he is walking past, and falls into the machine with the guard removed?

It wasn't his laziness or bad idea, but the criminal negligence of someone else. All the common sense in the world is not going to help him.

If he's lucky, they can put all the bits back where they belong and maybe they will work, if he's unlucky, they ship him out in a pine box.

If you think this is fanciful, it happened in a printing plant last week in Sydney. The person involved is being shipped out in a pine box.

Hells bells!!!! I used to work in the printing industry and thought it was pretty safe compared with others. What happened and how??

[Geoff Dean]

Hells bells!!!! I used to work in the printing industry and thought it was pretty safe compared with others. What happened and how??

How it happened, who can guess? These type of presses have guards on everything, with trip out switches so it the guard is not in place, the machine won't run. They must have been either bypassed or not working, and generally if they are not working, or faulty, the set up is such that the press won't run. This suggests to me that someone has possibly bypassed the switch somehow.

Man dies at Sydney print plant | Australia | News (http://www.i-grafix.com/index.php/news/australia/man-dies-at-sydney-print-plant.html)

A man has died at a Sydney printing facility after being trapped in machinery. Ambulance officers arrived at the Kellaway Place facility in Wetherill Park at 6.09pm on Friday, just 11 minutes after receiving the call, to find the already deceased.

Australian Printer understands the accident took place at Ultra Press, a commercial and trade printer specialising in large format printing. The company was unavailable for comment at the time of publishing.

The NSW Ambulance Service told Australian Printer that when paramedics arrived they found the man, said to be in his mid thirty’s, “Still trapped in the machinery with severe head and upper body injuries.”

It is not yet known, which piece of machinery was involved in the accident, however the company owns a Roland Ultra 6 - six colour press, a Roland Ultra 5 - four colour press and a Roland Ultra 5 - four colour press.

According to national media, WorkCover and police have launched an investigation.